(5401) Jesus should have known effects of exclusivism

If the gospels are reasonably accurate, then it can be deduced that Jesus preached an exclusive religion, one in which the in-group was right and headed for glory, while the out-group was wrong and heading for demise. In the following it is discussed that if Jesus was truly God he should have realized the world-wide violence and misery this system of belief would cause over the ensuing centuries:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/1pnxeiy/if_jesus_preached_an_exclusivist_salvation/

If Jesus preached an exclusivist salvation theology and expected to become as famous as he is, then he knew that his followers would eventually get militant. It doesn’t matter if he claimed to be peaceful in his own lifetime – it’s intuitive that exclusivism would lead to massive violence.

Christian apologetics often begin with the claim that Christianity spread peacefully for its first three centuries, under constant persecution, and therefore that later Christian violence represents a betrayal of Jesus’ original message. However, this narrative is increasingly disputed by modern scholarship. Historians such as Candida Moss have argued that the idea of sustained, empire-wide persecution is largely a later mythologization, with persecution being sporadic, localized, and exaggerated in Christian memory rather than a continuous reality. Even granting some persecution, the emphasis on the first roughly 300 years of Christianity distracts from the remaining 1,700 years of Christian history, which are repeatedly marked by state violence, forced conversions, religious wars, inquisitions, colonial domination, and the suppression of dissent. If a religion’s moral character is to be judged by its long-term fruits rather than its brief infancy, then this imbalance matters.

If Jesus preached an exclusivist theology of salvation, one in which only acceptance of him (or the correct belief about him) leads to salvation, then it is reasonable to argue that he would have foreseen the long-term social consequences of that message. Exclusivist truth claims naturally divide humanity into the “saved” and the “lost,” the “right” and the “wrong,” and historically such divisions tend to generate coercion, persecution, and violence once a group gains power. Even if Jesus personally advocated nonviolence during his lifetime, the structure of exclusivism itself makes militancy a predictable outcome over time.

Moreover, if Jesus is understood to be divine, omniscient or possessing foreknowledge, then he would have known not only that Christianity would spread, but how it would spread. He would have known that, historically, Christianity would often be propagated through imperial power, forced conversions, colonialism, and religious wars, rather than primarily through voluntary persuasion. If this future was foreknown, then the claim that Jesus bears no responsibility because he preached peace becomes harder to sustain. An all-knowing deity would be accountable not only for his immediate teachings, but for the foreseeable consequences of embedding exclusivism at the core of a global religion.

Under this view, Christianity’s violence is not merely a corruption of Jesus’ message but a logical outgrowth of a theology that insists eternal truth and salvation are confined to a single path, especially once that theology becomes institutionally powerful.

If Jesus had simply preached ‘be a good person, and you will be rewarded,’ without a need to embrace a specific theology, it would have changed world history and greatly lessened human suffering. It would seem that a divine personage would have understood this fact.

(5402) The forty percent disaster

Forty percent of the American public still believes that the earth is only six to ten thousand years old. And the current year is 2025, in an era of massive gains in scientific knowledge and technological progress. The following essay explores this unfortunate situation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1potbdq/the_earth_is_more_magical_than_the_bible_stories/

“Despite overwhelming scientific consensus, a significant portion of the American public adheres to young-Earth creationism, the belief that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. Polls, such as those from Gallup, consistently show that nearly four in ten Americans believe humanity was created in its present form within this incredibly recent timeframe. This belief requires the dismissal of entire fields of rigorous evidence—from geology and physics to biology and astronomy—in favor of a literalist interpretation of a sacred text. The cognitive dissonance is staggering, as it compresses the vast, majestic narrative of cosmic and planetary evolution into a span of time shorter than the recorded history of human civilization itself. To contemplate this is to understand what Carl Sagan meant when he wrote, “You have to know the past to understand the present,” for denying the deep past makes the present inexplicable.

The geological formation in the meme serves as a perfect metaphor for this willful ignorance. To circle the very top and claim, “God created the universe somewhere around this area,” is to ignore the monumental depth of rock below, each layer a chapter in a billion-year story. The Grand Canyon, for instance, is not a sudden crevasse from a global flood but a library of time, with its Vishnu Schist at the bottom being over 1.7 billion years old. To claim the Earth is young is to stand on a mountain of evidence and declare the ground beneath one’s feet an illusion. This is not just a scientific error but an intellectual tragedy, echoing biologist Richard Dawkins’ famous critique that such beliefs require “a conscientious devotion to ignorance, a deliberate, painstaking exclusion of evidence from the senses.”

The true age of the universe, established through multiple independent lines of evidence including the cosmic microwave background radiation and the redshift of galaxies, is approximately 13.8 billion years. Our Earth itself is a spry 4.54 billion years old, a fact confirmed by radiometric dating of meteorites and the oldest terrestrial rocks. This timeline is not a speculative guess but a robust conclusion, the foundation of modern cosmology and geology. To appreciate this scale is to be humbled by our place in a cosmic drama of almost unimaginable duration. As astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson reminds us, “We are not simply in the universe, we are part of it. We are born from it. One might even say we have been empowered by the universe to figure itself out.”

The ridiculous story told by creationism is not just factually incorrect; it is existentially small. It trades the profound, awe-inspiring epic of the cosmos—from the first stars forging heavy elements in their cores to the slow, patient evolution of life over billions of years—for a simplistic tale of a talking snake in a garden. The real story of reality, written in the light of distant supernovae, the genetic code of every living thing, and the stratified layers of stone, is infinitely more complex, mysterious, and magnificent. Embracing this evidence-based narrative does not diminish wonder; it expands it, offering a genesis story far greater than any myth—one where we are, as Sagan poetically stated, “a way for the cosmos to know itself.”

by Caption Indiran

Belief in creationism is ultimately tied to a belief in ancient religious texts, none of which were produced by any people who today we would term as scientists. In a thousand years, that 40 percent will likely be down to 4 percent, but the case can be made that it should be 4 percent now. The science determining the earth’s age is rock solid (pun intended) and rejection of it in deference to religious beliefs only goes to highlight the idiocy of those beliefs. The time to move on is now. Belief in creationism is just a remnant of humanity’s past ignorance of the natural world and credulousness for stories about made-up deities.

(5403) Xenophanes’ perspective on the gods

Xenophanes (c. 570 – c. 478 BCE), an ancient Greek poet and philosopher, made what was then a very astute observation about the gods that humans have created. The following was taken from:

https://fightingthegods.com/2025/12/05/breaking-the-spell-xenophanes-and-the-birth-of-religious-skepticism/

Our projections go both ways. The gods we invent share both our own insecurities and also our more commendable qualities, typically amplified for effect. But this doesn’t negate the fact that they are nothing other than projections. To lend support to this idea, consider the 12 Olympian gods and the psychological characteristics they represent:

1. 1. Zeus (King of the Gods) – Authority, leadership, and justice, but also anger, volatility, and pride
   2. Hera (Queen of the Gods) – Loyalty and dignity but also jealousy, vengeance, and possessiveness
   3. Poseidon (God of the Sea) – Strength and resilience but also rage and unpredictability
   4. Demeter (Goddess of Agriculture) – Nurturing and generosity but also grief and withdrawal
   5. Athena (Goddess of Wisdom) – Wisdom and rationality but also coldness and manipulation
   6. Apollo (God of Light) – Harmony and moderation but also rigidity and arrogance
   7. Artemis (Goddess of the Hunt) – Independence and self-reliance but also vengefulness and severity
   8. Ares (God of War) – Courage and physical strength but also violence and brutality
   9. Aphrodite (Goddess of Love) – Attraction and sensuality but also vanity and jealousy
   10. Hephaestus (God of Craftsmanship) – Creativity and perseverance but also bitterness and insecurity
   11. Hermes (Messenger of the Gods) – Wit, cleverness, and ingenuity but also deceitfulness and opportunism
   12. Dionysus (God of Wine) – Joy, freedom, creativity, and emotional expression but also chaos and loss of control

This is a rather impressive, complete, and nuanced list of our virtues and vices, and lends credence to the idea that gods have been, and always will be, divine manifestations of our psychological profiles, with certain traits sometimes suppressed or amplified as circumstances dictate. Eventually, all of these qualities get rolled up into a single God, Yahweh, but the Greeks had a more sophisticated mythology.

The larger point of all of this is that to confuse psychological projection and myth for actually existing beings is the fallacy of orthodox religion: it takes as literal what is meant to be allegorical, and it replaces nuance with rigidity.

Concerning the above, Xenophanes made a case and it is a strong one. When we consider the volume of human-invented gods across cultures, their incompatibility with each other, and the similarity of the gods to their inventors’ inner psychology and circumstances, the theory of psychological projection is almost certainly the case. And so Xenophanes, the first religious skeptic in the West, seems to have immediately hit the nail directly on the head.

Xenophanes did, however, believe in a creator of the universe, but we can forgive him for this, considering Darwin wouldn’t hit upon the theory of evolution for another 2,300-plus years. But what Xenophanes did understand is that humanity, through all its conflicting accounts of the gods, almost certainly knew nothing about them, if one or more did exist.

As Xenophanes wrote:

And concerning the gods,
No man has seen clearly nor will anyone ever
Know the truth
About the things I speak of;
For even if he happened to speak what is
Perfectly true,
He himself does not know it.
All things are mingled with opinion.

There are too many similarities between the gods that humans have worshiped and their own cultural characteristics to not conclude that these gods, all of them, are just a projection of the fears and ignorance of their creators. We would need to see something quite different and indisputably amazing to challenge this assumption.

(5404) Twenty times the Bible chose hate over love

The Bible contains numerous passages that modern readers often find jarring due to their depictions of violence, exclusion, or what might be perceived as “hate.” These scriptures generally fall into categories of imprecatory prayers (praying for evil). These scriptures are often referred to by scholars as “texts of terror” or “imprecatory passages.” They contain language of extreme violence, exclusion, or divine wrath that stands in contrast to messages of love and forgiveness found elsewhere in the Bible- making one wonder: Is this god schizophrenic?

Here are twenty examples generated by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro where the sentiment appears to be hate, vengeance, or merciless judgment:

1. The Blessing of Infanticide (Psalm 137:9) This is perhaps the most famous verse of violent anger in the Bible. Written by exiles in Babylon, it expresses a desire for brutal revenge against their captors.

“Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.”

2. “Perfect Hatred” (Psalm 139:21-22) While many Psalms praise God, this one explicitly claims hatred as a virtue when directed toward God’s enemies.

“Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord, and abhor those who are in rebellion against you? I have nothing but hatred for them; I count them my enemies.”

3. The Command for Genocide (1 Samuel 15:3) God commands King Saul to wipe out the Amalekites for an offense committed centuries earlier. The command explicitly forbids mercy or sparing non-combatants.

“Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”

4. The Mauling of the Boys (2 Kings 2:23-24) When the prophet Elisha is mocked by a group of youths for being bald, he curses them in the name of the Lord.

“Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.”

5. Divine Hate for a Nation (Malachi 1:2-3 / Romans 9:13) This verse challenges the idea that God loves everyone equally. It frames God’s election of Israel in terms of love for one brother and hate for the other.

“I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his hill country into a wasteland…”

6. The Horrors of Samaria (Hosea 13:16) The prophet Hosea describes the coming judgment on Samaria in graphic, terrifying detail.

“The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.”

7. Jesus on Family (Luke 14:26) While often interpreted as hyperbole (exaggeration for effect), the literal words of Jesus demand “hate” as a prerequisite for discipleship.

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.”

8. The Punishment of Eating Children (Deuteronomy 28:53-57) In the “blessings and curses” of the Law, God warns Israel that if they disobey, the siege conditions will be so horrific they will turn on each other.

“Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you… you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you.”

9. Hatred of Wrongdoers (Psalm 5:5) This verse contradicts the common phrase “God loves the sinner but hates the sin.”

“The arrogant cannot stand in your presence. You hate all who do wrong.”

10. Total Destruction of Canaanites (Deuteronomy 20:16) The rules of engagement for the Promised Land required the complete annihilation of the current inhabitants.

“However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.”

11. The Slaughter of the Midianites (Numbers 31:17-18) After a military victory, Moses is angry that the army spared the women and children. He issues a command that is often cited as a sanctioning of war crimes and sexual slavery.

“Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.”

12. “Wash Their Feet in Blood” (Psalm 58:10) This Psalm anticipates the joy the righteous will feel when they see the wicked destroyed.

“The righteous will be glad when they are avenged, when they dip their feet in the blood of the wicked.”

13. Prayer for Orphans and Widows (Psalm 109:9-10) Often called the “Cursing Psalm,” this passage is a prayer not just against an enemy, but against his innocent family.

“May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow. May his children be wandering beggars; may they be driven from their ruined homes.”

14. Slaughter Without Pity (Ezekiel 9:5-6) In a vision of judgment against Jerusalem for its idolatry, God commands his executioners to show no mercy to any demographic.

“…Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary… Show no pity or compassion.”

15. Death for Religious Difference (2 Chronicles 15:13) During a religious reform under King Asa, a covenant was made that mandated the execution of non-believers.

“All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.”

16. The Fate of Babylon’s Children (Isaiah 13:15-16) Prophesying the destruction of Babylon, the text describes the brutality of the Medes as an instrument of God’s wrath.

“Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives violated.”

17. The Smoke of Torment (Revelation 14:10-11) The New Testament ends with graphic depictions of eternal punishment for those who worship the “Beast.”

“They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.”

18. Immediate Execution for Lying (Acts 5:1-10) In the early church, a couple, Ananias and Sapphira, lie about how much money they donated. They are struck dead instantly by God, causing “great fear” in the church.

“Then Peter said, ‘Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit?’ … When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died.”

19. Death for Rebellious Children (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) The Law provides a capital punishment solution for a stubborn, rebellious son who refuses to obey his parents.

“Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you.”

20. Jehu’s Massacre (2 Kings 10:11, 14, 17) Jehu, anointed by God to destroy the house of Ahab, carries out a bloody purge that includes beheading 70 princes and piling their heads at the city gates.

“So Jehu killed everyone in Jezreel who remained of the house of Ahab, as well as all his chief men, his close friends and his priests, leaving him no survivor.”

These verses are much more likely the reflections of uncaring human emotions than a supernatural deity having a bad day.

(5405) Jesus birth plan results in the massacre of babies

If the Gospel of Matthew is factual on this matter, the method God chose to introduce his son Jesus into the world resulted in the unnecessary massacre of many babies in Jerusalem. If the gospel is non-factual on this scenario, then we have another problem. The following was taken from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1ppjwpg/the_biblical_christmas_story_has_god_choosing_a/

The Biblical Christmas story has God choosing a birth plan that he knew would result in the massacre of innocent babies.

The Biblical Christmas story has God choosing a birth plan that he knew would result in the massacre of innocent babies. Additionally, there are two different accounts of Jesus’ birth with over 20 contradictions (here I will only mention a few). Only two accounts of Jesus’ birth made it into the Christian canon and they were written by two different authors who wrote anonymously. Their books are referred to as Matthew and Luke. The scholarly consensus is that the original first copy of both of these books was written 80-85 years after Jesus was born (50-55 years after his death). Could you write an ACCURATE birth narrative for someone born in 1940 who died in 1977, based only on stories you’d heard?

Only Matthew mentions the massacre and Luke says nothing about it at all. Here’s what happens: Herod sends out troops to kill all of the babies in Bethlehem. His goal was to kill Jesus. Joseph, Mary, and Jesus escape in time. Matthew doesn’t say how many died, but church tradition inflated the number to as many as 144,000. But whether it’s 10 babies or 100,000, the moral problem remains the same.

It’s worth mentioning that despite having detailed historical records of Herod’s many documented atrocities, no ancient historian (not even those who hated Herod) mentions this massacre. It appears nowhere outside Matthew’s Gospel.

Why does Jesus need to create misery and why does he have to commit child sacrifice to bring himself into the world? Does this sound like something an all knowing, powerful, and good deity would do? Why couldn’t he think of a better plan? If you want to celebrate this holiday, you can! Childermas or the Feast of the Holy Innocents falls on Dec 28th. Whose idea was it to name this holiday in a way that makes it sound like people are feasting on innocent children? It is observed by Catholic, Anglican, and some Lutheran and Orthodox churches.

It reminds me of an equally poorly named holiday called Feast of the Circumcision of Christ that happens on Jan 1st. Now don’t get me started on the foreskins of Jesus because that’s a whole other rabbit hole. If you want to read about how Jesus’ only remaining body part became a Christian relic that 18 different churches simultaneously claimed to own in the Middle Ages, look up The Holy Prepuce.

There are a million ways God could have avoided sacrificing those children. For starters, the only reason Herod knows about Jesus is because the Magi showed up in Jerusalem announcing they’re looking for the newborn ‘king of the Jews.’ These heroes of the story literally tipped off the paranoid king about his competition. God sent them there following a star. So God’s master plan had them alerting Herod, which directly caused the massacre. Why not have the star take them straight to Bethlehem and skip the whole ‘tell the murderous king’ step? The deaths of those babies are a direct result of the Magi’s announcement.

Let’s investigate some more conundrums. When Herod hears that Jesus was born, he was upset, and all of Jerusalem with him. I understand why Herod would be upset, but why all of Jerusalem? It’s one of many details that only makes sense as dramatic storytelling, not history. For example, Herod hears about Jesus being born from the Magi who are following a star that somehow stops over Jerusalem. The star begins moving again and ends up taking them to Bethlehem where it stops over Jesus’ house. So how does a star stop over a city, and how does it then reappear and start again and then stop over a house? And how did the Magi figure out which exact house the star was above? The text clearly says that this is a star and the importance of stars in Christmas iconography shows that Christians also think that it was a star. Stars don’t go in direct straight directions because of the rotation of the earth. So were the Magi going all over the map for 2-3 months while traveling an estimated 1,000+ miles.

Why are the Magi following this star? Matthew says they want to worship the king of the Jews. But Herod WAS the king of the Jews, did they worship him when he was born? Are they going to worship the next king of the Jews? It’s like, when the next president is born, do people go worship him? Why would you worship a king? These Magi were used to worshipping Persian/Zoroastrian deities, not the Jewish God.

Luke’s birth story never mentions the Magi. Only Matthew’s narrative mentions them and it never uses the words “wise men”. It actually calls them Magi. Magi were ancient magicians who practiced magic, astrology, and divination. The Bible says many contradictory things about magic. Exodus 22:18 says “Do not allow a sorceress to live.” However, in 1 Samuel 28, God used a witch to deliver an authentic prophecy which means God actively participated and validated the necromantic ritual that he previously said should be punishable by death. Furthermore, God forbids the practice of magic in Exodus 22:18, but then the only people who successfully locate his son, Jesus, are foreign magicians using their forbidden arts. The Bible says kill sorcerers, but apparently they’re fine when God needs them for his birth announcement. Christians over the centuries adore these sorcerers.

The birth narratives don’t make sense historically if you’re taking them as something that really happened. It makes sense if you’re treating it as a story that is trying to convey a lesson about Jesus and theological truths about Jesus. For example: His birth is causing cosmic disruptions. The Magi are people from far away and they recognize that something big is happening. And it is going to spell trouble for the ruling authorities who are there now.

These are just a few of the 20+ contradictions between these two accounts and we haven’t even gotten to some of the major ones like: Matthew says Jesus was born in 4 BCE under Herod, Luke says 6 CE during Quirinius’s census. That’s a 10-year gap. Both can’t be right. You can love the poetry and the message, but let’s stop pretending these are eyewitness accounts of historical events.

There is no doubt that something is amiss. Either the massacre story, presented as factual, is actually fictional, or God, in his infinite wisdom, felt that the deaths of thousands of babies was acceptable collateral damage in the wake of Jesus’ birth. Either way, something is really amiss.

(5406) Twelve bible miracles that failed to leave evidence

The following lists twelve stories in the Bible that should have left evidence of their occurrence that would be available to be accessed today, compiled by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro:

This is a question of forensic geology, archaeology, and astronomy. While many biblical miracles are “local” and transient (like healing a blind man), others are global or cataclysmic events that, by their very nature, should have left an indelible physical mark on the planet.

If these events occurred as literally described, we would expect to find specific, observable evidence today. The absence of such evidence is a primary reason why many scholars view these accounts as mythological or allegorical.

Here are the key biblical miracles that should have left evidence:

1. The Global Flood (Genesis 6–9)

The Claim: A flood covered the entire earth, submerging the highest mountains (Mount Everest is ~29,000 ft) for roughly a year. Expected Evidence:

• • A Universal Sediment Layer: We should find a distinct, uniform layer of sediment (mud/silt) dating to roughly 4,000–6,000 years ago across every continent, containing a mass extinction event of terrestrial animals.
  • Genetic Bottleneck: Every land animal species (and humans) should show a genetic “bottleneck” dating to the same time, indicating the entire population was reduced to a single pair (or 8 humans) and then re-expanded.
  • Ice Core Data: Ice cores from Greenland and Antarctica (which go back hundreds of thousands of years) should show a massive layer of saltwater intrusion or a melt/refreeze event around 2500 BC. Observable Reality: None of this evidence exists. The geological record shows local floods at different times, but no global sediment layer. Ice cores show uninterrupted annual layers for 100,000+ years. Genetic diversity in humans and animals is far too broad to have restarted 4,000 years ago.

2. The Exodus and the Red Sea Crossing (Exodus 14)

The Claim: Roughly 600,000 men (plus women/children = ~2 million people) lived in the Sinai desert for 40 years. An entire Egyptian army (chariots, horses, armor) was drowned in the Red Sea. Expected Evidence:

• • Trash and Burials: A nomadic group of 2 million people would leave behind massive amounts of pottery shards, waste, and millions of graves (assuming a normal death rate over 40 years). The Sinai should be littered with Bronze Age debris.
  • Marine Archaeology: The floor of the Gulf of Suez or Gulf of Aqaba should contain preserved chariot wheels, bronze weapons, and horse bones from the Egyptian army, dating to the late Bronze Age (c. 1446 or 1250 BC). Observable Reality: Despite intensive searching, archaeologists have found virtually no evidence of a mass migration of this size in the Sinai from this period. No chariot army has been substantiated on the sea floor.

3. Joshua’s Long Day (Joshua 10)

The Claim: The sun stood still in the sky for “about a whole day” to allow Israel to win a battle. Expected Evidence:

• • Global Historical Records: If the sun stopped for Israel, the rest of the world would have experienced a prolonged day (Europe/Africa) or a prolonged night (Americas/Asia). Civilizations with written records or astronomy traditions at that time (Egyptians, Chinese, Babylonians, Mayans) should have recorded this terrifying cosmic anomaly.
  • Geological/Coral Records: Daily growth rings in corals can be affected by sunlight cycles. A 48-hour day might disrupt these microscopic patterns. Observable Reality: There are no corroborating records from other civilizations of a “long day” or “long night” occurring simultaneously around 1200 BC.

4. The Ten Plagues of Egypt (Exodus 7–12)

The Claim: The total devastation of Egypt’s agriculture (hail/locusts), livestock (disease), and workforce (death of firstborn), along with the pollution of the Nile (blood). Expected Evidence:

• • Economic Collapse Record: Such a sequence would have caused the total collapse of the Egyptian state, leading to a “dark age,” famine, and vulnerability to invasion. We should see a distinct break in the Egyptian dynastic records or a period of chaos.
  • Non-Biblical Texts: We would expect Egyptian scribes or neighboring nations to mention this catastrophe. Observable Reality: Egyptian history continues uninterrupted during the potential windows for the Exodus (15th or 13th century BC). While there are periods of instability, none match the specific profile of the Ten Plagues.

5. The Darkness at the Crucifixion (Matthew 27:45)

The Claim: Darkness covered “all the land” (or the whole earth) for three hours during Jesus’s crucifixion (around noon to 3 PM). Expected Evidence:

• • Astronomical/Historical Records: A solar eclipse is impossible during Passover (which happens at a full moon). Therefore, this would have been a supernatural darkness visible across the Roman Empire and the Mediterranean. Astronomers and historians in Rome, Alexandria, and Greece should have noted it. Observable Reality: There are no contemporary Greco-Roman records of a supernatural darkness occurring around 30–33 AD. (Later Christian apologists cite Thallus, but his work is lost and disputed).

6. The Resurrection of the Saints (Matthew 27:52–53)

The Claim: At the moment of Jesus’s death, tombs broke open and “many holy people” were raised to life, came out of the tombs, went into Jerusalem, and “appeared to many people.” Expected Evidence:

• • Contemporary Reaction: The sudden appearance of formerly dead, rotting corpses walking through Jerusalem and interacting with families would be the most shocking event in the city’s history—arguably more visible than the resurrection of Jesus (who only appeared to believers). It should be mentioned by Josephus (the Jewish historian), Roman officials, or at least the other Gospel writers. Observable Reality: Only Matthew mentions this event. Mark, Luke, John, Josephus, and Tacitus are completely silent on it.

7. The Tower of Babel (Genesis 11)

The Claim: Humanity was united with a single language and gathered in Shinar (Babylon) to build a massive tower. God confused their language, scattering them across the earth to create all distinct linguistic groups instantly. Expected Evidence:

• • Linguistic Roots: We should see all world languages tracing back to a single point of origin and sudden divergence in the Middle East around 2200 BC.
  • Archaeological Disruption: We should find an abandoned mega-structure in Mesopotamia from the late 3rd millennium BC, alongside a sudden dispersal of material culture. Observable Reality: Historical linguistics shows that languages evolved slowly over tens of thousands of years from multiple different root families (Indo-European, Sino-Tibetan, etc.), long before Babylon existed. The ziggurats of Babylon (like the Etemenanki) were completed structures, not abandoned mid-construction due to a language crisis.

8. The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19)

The Claim: Two cities were destroyed by “sulfur and fire” raining from the sky, turning the entire plain into a wasteland. Expected Evidence:

• • Ash Layer/Impact Debris: We should find a distinct destruction layer in the Dead Sea region containing high concentrations of sulfur, ash, and evidence of extreme heat (vitrified pottery or sand turned to glass) dating to the time of Abraham (c. 2000 BC).
  • Abandonment: The area should show a sudden cessation of habitation. Observable Reality: While some archaeologists (like at Tall el-Hammam) argue for a meteor airburst that fits this description, the consensus remains disputed. Most sites in the region show gradual decline or conflict-based destruction rather than a supernatural incineration event.

9. The Conquest of Canaan (Book of Joshua)

The Claim: The Israelites entered Canaan and destroyed major fortified cities like Jericho and Ai, burning them to the ground and killing the inhabitants. Expected Evidence:

• • Destruction Layers: We should find layers of ash and destruction in the archaeological strata of these cities dating to the Late Bronze Age (c. 1400 or 1200 BC), followed by a distinct change in culture (new pottery styles, no pig bones) indicating Israelite settlement. Observable Reality:
  • Jericho: Excavations (notably by Kathleen Kenyon) suggest Jericho was abandoned or was a small, unfortified village at the time of Joshua. There were no massive walls to fall down during the Late Bronze Age.
  • Ai: The site identified as Ai (Et-Tell) was unoccupied from 2400 BC to 1200 BC. The name “Ai” literally means “The Ruin,” suggesting the story may have been an etiology to explain ruins that were already ancient in Joshua’s time.

10. The Census of Quirinius (Luke 2)

The Claim: A decree went out from Caesar Augustus that “all the world should be registered.” This required Joseph and Mary to travel from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Luke dates this to when Quirinius was governor of Syria. Expected Evidence:

• • Roman Records: The Roman Empire was a bureaucracy obsessed with record-keeping. A census requiring the entire population of the empire (or even just the province) to return to their ancestral hometowns (a massive economic disruption) would be thoroughly documented.
  • Historical Timeline: Quirinius did become governor and conduct a census in 6 AD. However, King Herod the Great (who appears in the same birth narrative in Matthew) died in 4 BC. Observable Reality: There is no record of a single, empire-wide census that required travel to ancestral homes. Furthermore, the timeline creates a 10-year discrepancy: Jesus cannot be born both during the reign of Herod (before 4 BC) and during the census of Quirinius (6 AD).

11. The Massacre of the Innocents (Matthew 2:16)

The Claim: King Herod ordered the execution of all male children two years old and under in Bethlehem and its vicinity. Expected Evidence:

• • Historical Record: Herod was a closely watched client king. His atrocities (murdering his own wife and sons) were meticulously recorded by the historian Josephus, who hated Herod and would have eagerly included this crime. Observable Reality: Josephus does not mention the massacre of babies in Bethlehem. While the act fits Herod’s paranoid character, the lack of any external record suggests it may be a theological narrative designed to draw a parallel between Jesus and Moses (who survived Pharaoh’s massacre of infants).

12. The Earthquake at the Crucifixion (Matthew 27:51)

The Claim: At the moment of Jesus’s death, “The earth shook, the rocks split.” Expected Evidence:

• • Geological Record: A localized earthquake strong enough to split rocks in Jerusalem might leave evidence in the sediment layers of the Dead Sea (seismites), which preserve earthquake records for thousands of years. Observable Reality: While there are earthquake records in the Dead Sea sediment (one around 31 BC and another roughly 31 AD), linking a specific geologic event to a precise hour on a Friday is scientifically difficult. However, the lack of corroboration in other historical texts (Josephus, Tacitus) for a quake that damaged the Temple is notable.

If the Bible is to be taken as a factual account of history, then the problems discussed above need to be resolved. But obviously that cannot happen. What we are left with is the virtually certain knowledge that none of the events discussed above actually happened. They are all mythical fabrications. These twelve alleged miracles are exposed because they ‘went too far,’ such that future analysis could refute them. But what should be gleaned from this fact is that a lot of the stories that would not be expected to leave persistent evidence are likely to be fictional as well.

(5407) Jesus betrayed Judas

Although the story is likely fictional, the alleged betrayal of Jesus by Judas is incompatible with any sense of logic. In fact, it is much more sound to condemn Jesus himself for the ‘betrayal.’ The following was taken from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/1pt0hpu/jesus_is_the_one_who_betrayed_judas_not_the_other/

Jesus is the one who betrayed Judas – – not the other way around – – and that is according to the gospels.

Judas didn’t just happen to decide to betray Jesus, Jesus sent Satan into Judas.

Luke 22:3 says: “Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was one of the twelve”

In John 13:26, when answering the question about who will betray him, Jesus answers, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

Keep in mind …. that Jesus’s so-called ‘betrayal’ and crucifixion was completely arranged and scripted by Jesus. It didn’t need to happen. It was all a performance.

Jesus is supposed to be one with god. All powerful. Satan only entered into Judas because Jesus arranged it.

Jesus betrayed Judas.

Judas abandoned everything to follow Jesus, and in return Jesus used him and abandoned him. Judas was nothing more than a prop in a play.

Not only that, but Jesus had the nerve to say: But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

…. but of course, Judas had no control over that either …. did he.
That’s hardly an example of Jesus turning the other cheek or forgiving his enemies. Jesus obviously didn’t practice what he preached.

Jesus was absolutely not the good or perfect person Christians make him out to be.

The betrayal story fails to make sense and a determined, straightforward reading of the gospels paints Judas as the victim and Jesus as the perpetrator. Jesus betrayed Judas.

(5408) Why your beliefs are probably wrong

The following essay explores the mechanics of how people form beliefs and the vacuous ways that they attempt to justify them:

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1pt0yt9/why_99_of_your_beliefs_are_wrong_and_why_youll/

The question of why people believe is a problem for psychologists and sociologists. In this essay, we are obsessed with only one question: Is what you believe actually true?

Right now, millions of people shape their lives, morals, and futures based on certain “assumptions.” But the core issue isn’t how ancient a belief is, or how many billions of followers it has. The issue is this: Does your belief have any correlation with reality?

Because no one wants to waste their life on a lie that has nothing to do with the truth.

Although there seem to be thousands of ways to justify a belief throughout history, they all essentially boil down to three main categories. No matter which religion, ideology, or system you look at, you will eventually crash into one of these three walls.

Let’s dismantle these three justifications and see, step by step, why the system collapses.

Wall 1: Faith (Acceptance Without Evidence)

This is the most common and crowded category. The technical definition of faith is essentially this: “I have accepted this belief as true from the start (Axiom). No evidence or contradiction can change this. I interpret everything else based on this premise.”

Sounds like loyalty, doesn’t it? But from an epistemological standpoint, this is nothing more than an “arbitrary acceptance.”

Think of it this way:

If I were to say, “I am actually God, I am testing you right now, but I will never prove it,” you would have no reason to believe me. But technically, there is no difference between my claim and a religious person’s faith. Both are unfalsifiable.

There is zero epistemological difference between a schizophrenic believing in an “Evil Unicorn” in their room and a believer having faith in an unseen entity. Both are real only within that specific mind.

Many of you might ask, “But billions of people can’t be wrong, are my ancestors stupid?” The answer is: Yes, they can be wrong.

Human history is a graveyard of majority delusions. People believe not because they are logical, but because of cultural heritage, psychological comfort, and childhood conditioning. If you had been born in a different geography, your “absolute truth” would be completely different. This alone proves that faith is not a quest for truth, but a geography lottery.

This is exactly why Bobby Henderson’s “Flying Spaghetti Monster” argument exists in modern philosophy. If we believe in something without evidence solely based on “faith,” then believing in an invisible Spaghetti Monster orbiting the Earth is just as valid.

Wall 2: The “It Sounds Logical” Trap (Philosophical Justifications)

The second group consists of those who say, “I don’t believe blindly; I use my reason.” They construct logical chains like cosmological arguments, the first cause, or fine-tuning.

“The universe must have a beginning, the beginning must have a cause, and that cause is God.”

It sounds so logical, doesn’t it? But there is a massive logical fallacy hidden here: Internal consistency does not prove objective existence.

I can explain this best with “The Flash” paradox:

In the comic book universe, The Flash can run at the speed of light. Within the physics of that universe, this is “logical” and consistent. But in our universe, for an object with mass to reach the speed of light, it would require infinite energy.

You can write pages of consistent calculations asking, “If The Flash runs at light speed, what is his friction coefficient?” But this doesn’t prove The Flash is real. It only proves that the imaginary universe you constructed is consistent.

Theological arguments are just like this. You can build a flawless “God Model” within itself. But by the same logic, you can build models that say “The universe is cyclical” or defend the “Multiverse Theory.” They are all logical on paper.

But as long as they are not falsifiable (testable), there is no informational difference between saying “God did it” and “The Multiverse did it.”

The Crucial Distinction: Scientific Extrapolation vs. Religious Fabrication

At this point, you might object: “But science doesn’t know everything either; they speculate that ‘We are not alone in the universe.’ Is that a religion too?”

No. There is a subtle but vital difference here:

Scientific Extrapolation: This is where data and mathematics inevitably lead us. If 2+2=4, even if we haven’t seen the “4” yet, we say “There must be a 4 there.” Saying “We are not alone” is the mathematical result of billions of galaxies(maybe).

Religious Fabrication: This is filling a void with an arbitrary story when there is no data or equation.

If a belief system came and said, “Look, quantum equations get stuck here; for the math to work, we MUST insert a ‘Consciousness’ variable here,” then I would take it seriously. Because that would be a quest for mathematical consistency.

But religions don’t do that. They don’t solve the equation; they spill coffee on it and say, “God did this.” One is completing the missing piece; the other is inventing a piece that doesn’t exist.

Wall 3: Pseudo-Scientific Justifications

The final category includes those trying to piggyback on the prestige of science. Claims like “This miracle is written in the holy book” or “Look, this verse actually describes the Big Bang.”

These are usually:

Retrofitting (Fitting the evidence to the story retroactively),

Selective Perception,

And claims lacking Independent Verification.

The most fundamental rule of science is this: Falsifiability.

If a claim cannot be tested and potentially proven wrong, no matter how many fancy words you dress it in, it is not science. Arguments like “Fine Tuning” are not scientific theories; they are philosophical poems dressed in scientific jargon.

Conclusion: The Only Path to Reality

We must accept this: The human mind evolved not to find the truth, but to survive and fit in with the tribe. That’s why your brain constantly whispers, “What you believe is true, you are right.”

The only weapon we have against this is the Scientific Method.

Does science promise us absolute truth? No.

But science is the only system that learns from its mistakes and corrects itself.

Religion says, “This is the answer, believe it.”

Science says, “This is our best answer for now, but if you prove it wrong, we will switch to the better one.”

If a method better, more consistent, and more evidence-based than science is found one day, those with a scientific mindset will accept it. But believers will continue to cling to their old stories, even without evidence.

The real question you need to ask yourself is:

Are you seeking the truth, or do you just want to feel right?

Most of the current religions were formed during a time prior to the scientific revolution, meaning that their seeds were able to grow in the fertile ground of a supernatural zeitgeist. This is why we likely will never see another religion develop similar to Christianity- it would face brutal headwinds of fact-checking and a demand for objective evidence. This is to say that after the inevitable fall of Christianity, Islam, and the like, probably about 1000 years from now, the world will be populated by >99 percent atheists.

(5409) Thirteen ways Yahweh exhibits insecurity and ego

It would seem that an all-powerful god would be secure in his status of being the supreme being in the universe and would not need the approval, admiration, or worship of lowly humans. But for Yahweh, that is not the case. He exhibits insecurity in multiple ways. The following was generated by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro:

Critics and skeptics often point to the biblical God’s obsession with His own glory, reputation, and demand for exclusive praise as evidence of a personality that, in human terms, would be diagnosed as megalomania or extreme narcissism.

Here are specific examples and themes in the Bible where God appears to be primarily motivated by ego:

1. The Explicit Admission of “Jealousy”

In human relationships, jealousy is usually seen as a sign of insecurity or possessiveness. However, the God of the Bible defines Himself by this trait.

• • Exodus 34:14: “Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.”
  • Deuteronomy 4:24: “For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.”
  • The Critique: Critics argue that an all-powerful Creator of the universe should be above the petty human emotion of jealousy regarding what statues or deities tiny humans choose to bow down to.

2. Doing Good “For His Own Sake,” Not for Humans

There are numerous passages where God saves or helps people not out of altruism or love for them, but specifically to protect His own “brand” or reputation among the nations.

• • Ezekiel 36:22-23: “It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned… Then the nations will know that I am the Lord.”
  • Isaiah 48:9-11: “For my own name’s sake I delay my wrath… For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another.”
  • The Critique: God explicitly tells Israel that they don’t deserve saving, but He is saving them only because if He didn’t, He would look weak to the other nations. It frames salvation as a PR move.

3. Using Humans as Props to Display Power (Pharaoh)

In the Exodus narrative, God explicitly hardens Pharaoh’s heart so that Pharaoh cannot let the Israelites go, specifically so God can continue to send plagues and show off His power.

• • Exodus 9:16: “But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
  • Romans 9:17: Paul reiterates this, arguing that God has the right to create some people as “objects of wrath” prepared for destruction just to show His power and glory to the “objects of mercy.”
  • The Critique: This reduces a human being (Pharaoh) to a mere puppet used to stage a display of divine strength, rather than treating him as a moral agent.

4. The wager of Job

The entire premise of the Book of Job is a bet between God and “The Satan” (the Accuser) regarding God’s ego.

• • Job 1-2: God initiates the conversation by boasting about Job: “Have you considered my servant Job?” Satan argues Job only worships God because God bribes him with blessings. To prove that He is worthy of worship without providing blessings, God allows Satan to destroy Job’s family, wealth, and health.+1
  • The Critique: God allows the torture of his most faithful servant and the death of that servant’s ten children essentially to win a bet and prove that He is so magnificent that He should be worshipped even when He provides nothing but misery.

5. Creation Designed for Self-Adulation

The Bible suggests that the primary purpose of creating humans was not for the humans’ enjoyment of life, but to function as an audience/choir for God.

• • Isaiah 43:7: “Everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory, whom I formed and made.”
  • Revelation 4:10-11: The vision of heaven depicts elders and living creatures doing nothing but casting their crowns before God and chanting, “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power.”
  • The Critique: Critics describe this as a “cosmic North Korea,” where the sole purpose of the citizenry is to endlessly praise the Dear Leader.

6. Jesus demanding Supreme Love

While Jesus is often portrayed as humble, he also made demands of personal allegiance that would be considered cult-like or narcissistic coming from any other human.

• • Matthew 10:37: “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”
  • The Critique: Jesus demands to be the center of every person’s emotional universe, displacing even the biological bond between parent and child.

7. The Tower of Babel (Suppressing Human Achievement)

In Genesis 11, humanity unites to build a city and a tower. Their stated goal is to “make a name for ourselves.”

• • The Reaction: God comes down and says, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.” (Genesis 11:6). He then confuses their language to scatter them.
  • The Critique: Critics argue this shows a deity who is insecure about human potential. Rather than being a proud parent watching His children succeed and collaborate, God sabotages their project because He views human unity and self-sufficiency as a threat to His own supremacy. He stops them specifically so they cannot “make a name” for themselves.

8. The Execution of Herod Agrippa (Lethal Envy)

In the New Testament, King Herod Agrippa gives a speech to the people of Tyre and Sidon.

• • The Incident: The crowd shouts, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.” Herod does not rebuke them.
  • The Punishment: “Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.” (Acts 12:23).
  • The Critique: This implies a level of hypersensitivity regarding credit. Herod is struck dead not for committing a genocide or an act of cruelty, but for a moment of vanity—for failing to deflect a compliment toward God. It paints God as unwilling to tolerate even a moment of shared spotlight.

9. The Death of Uzzah (Ritual Protocol Over Life)

King David is transporting the Ark of the Covenant on an ox cart (which was against regulations; it was supposed to be carried on poles).

• • The Incident: The oxen stumble, and the Ark begins to tip over. A man named Uzzah reaches out to steady it so it doesn’t fall in the dirt.
  • The Punishment: “The Lord’s anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down, and he died there beside the ark of God.” (2 Samuel 6:7).
  • The Critique: Uzzah’s intention was to protect God’s property/dignity. However, God killed him for touching His “holy” object. Critics argue this prioritizes God’s “personal space” (holiness) over a human life and punishes a reflexive act of helpfulness because it violated a boundary concerning God’s specialness.

10. Moses Appealing to God’s PR

When the Israelites worship the Golden Calf, God tells Moses He intends to destroy the entire nation and start over with Moses. Moses manages to talk God out of it, but his argument is telling.

• • The Argument: Moses doesn’t just argue for mercy; he appeals to God’s vanity and reputation. He says: “Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains’?… Turn from your fierce anger.” (Exodus 32:12).
  • The Critique: It appears that the most effective way to calm God down is to remind Him that if He kills His people, He will look bad in front of the neighbors (the Egyptians). It suggests God cares deeply about what the “other nations” think of Him.

11. The First Four Commandments

The Ten Commandments are the foundation of biblical morality, but the first four are entirely focused on God’s ego.

1. 1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
   2. You shall not make idols.
   3. You shall not misuse My name.
   4. Remember the Sabbath day (to keep it holy to Me).

• • The Critique: Before God forbids murder, theft, or adultery (interpersonal ethics), He secures His own status. Nearly half of the “Big Ten” moral laws are demands for personal loyalty and proper worship etiquette toward Himself.

12. “I Hated Esau” (Arbitrary Favoritism)

In Malachi 1:2-3 (and quoted in Romans 9), God declares: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

• • The Context: Paul argues in Romans 9 that this decision was made before either twin was born or had done anything good or bad, solely to demonstrate God’s purpose in election.
  • The Critique: This depicts a deity who picks favorites arbitrarily to demonstrate His sovereignty. Hating someone (or rejecting them) before they are even born, purely to prove that You have the power to do so, is viewed by critics as the behavior of a tyrant, not a loving father.

13. Testing Abraham (The Ultimate Loyalty Test)

God commands Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as a burnt offering (Genesis 22).

• • The Result: At the last second, God stops Abraham and says, “Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
  • The Critique: An omniscient God should already know Abraham’s heart. Staging a traumatic psychological test where a father must be willing to murder his child just to prove that he loves God more than the child is seen as emotionally manipulative and cruel—a demand for total, unquestioning obsession.

It should be obvious that if humans invent a god, that god most likely will reflect the characteristics of its creators, and that is exactly what we see in Yahweh. Despite his power and omniscience, he is still insecure and craves love and approval to stroke his ego.

(5410) Religious texts reveal authors’ narcissism

The religious texts of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism all reflect the narcissism of their creators. The following was taken from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1pv54fv/religious_texts_reveal_their_authors_narcissism/

Religious Texts Reveal Their Authors’ Narcissism – And It’s Obvious Once You See It

Let’s cut through the theological bullshit and look at what religious texts actually reveal about the people who wrote them.

The Pattern Is Clear

Certain religions have a death penalty for leaving. Think about that. “Join my religion or burn in hell, and if you try to leave after joining, we’ll kill you.”

That’s not divine wisdom. That’s the psychology of an abusive partner who says “if I can’t have you, nobody can.”

Let’s Be Specific

Islam: The Quran prescribes death for apostasy. Muhammad couldn’t handle people rejecting him, so he made leaving his religion a capital crime. He also married a 6-year-old (consummated at 9) and had critics assassinated. This isn’t prophet behavior – it’s textbook narcissistic abuse patterns.

Judaism: “I am a jealous God” – that’s literally in the text. A deity so insecure he needs constant validation and threatens violence if you even THINK about other gods. The Old Testament God is a narcissistic tyrant who drowns the entire world when people don’t worship him correctly.

Christianity: “Believe in me or burn in eternal hellfire” is emotional terrorism. The entire system is built on guilt, fear, and the narcissistic premise that God needs your worship. Paul especially shaped Christianity into an authoritarian control structure with himself as the authority.

Hinduism (Bhagavad Gita): The Brahmins who wrote this literally created a religious text saying “God commands that WE never have to do manual labor and THOSE people were born to serve us.” It’s the most transparent case of elites writing their own privilege into holy scripture. “Your suffering is deserved because of past karma” is victim-blaming as divine law.

The Tell-Tale Sign

Here’s how you know these systems came from narcissists:

Normal people don’t:

• • Claim to speak for God with absolute certainty
  • Demand worship under threat of death/eternal torture
  • Create systems where questioning them is forbidden
  • Punish people for leaving
  • Design religious hierarchies that conveniently place themselves at the top

Narcissists do all of these things.

The Control Mechanisms Are Identical

Religious narcissistic control = Interpersonal narcissistic control:

Narcissistic Partner	Narcissistic Religion
“You can never leave me”	Apostasy = death penalty
“Question me and you’re the problem”	Blasphemy = sin/crime
“You deserve the abuse”	Suffering = karmic justice
“I’m special and above the rules”	Prophet/priest privilege
“Everyone else is evil/wrong”	Believers vs. infidels

Why Buddhism and Taoism Are Different

Buddha explicitly said: “Don’t believe me because I said it. Test it yourself.”

He refused to claim divinity. He allowed people to leave. He rejected hierarchies. He didn’t threaten people who disagreed with him.

Because he wasn’t a narcissist.

Same with Lao Tzu and Taoism – no central authority, no punishment for leaving, no claims of exclusive truth.

The difference in psychology is blindingly obvious once you look for it.

The Brahmin Scam Deserves Special Mention

Imagine being so lazy and entitled that you write a holy book where God personally says you’re too spiritually advanced to clean toilets, and other people were literally BORN to do your chores.

And then you enforce this for thousands of years.

That’s not spirituality. That’s a protection racket with religious window dressing.

This Isn’t “Edgy” – It’s Pattern Recognition

We recognize narcissistic abuse in relationships. We recognize it in politics. We recognize it in cults.

Why do we give ancient religious founders a pass when they display the exact same patterns?

• • Grandiose claims about their own importance? ✓
  • Cannot tolerate rejection? ✓
  • Punish those who leave? ✓
  • Demand absolute obedience? ✓
  • Create self-serving systems? ✓

If your friend was in a relationship with someone who said “worship me, never question me, never leave me or I’ll kill you, and you deserve any suffering I cause you” – you’d call it abuse.

Why is it different when it’s wrapped in religious language?

The Bottom Line

Religious texts are psychological documents. They reveal the minds of their authors.

Authoritarian religions with apostasy laws, eternal punishment, and rigid hierarchies weren’t created by humble, secure people. They were created by individuals or groups with narcissistic traits who needed absolute control and couldn’t tolerate rejection.

Buddhism and Taoism show us what religions look like when they’re NOT founded by narcissists.

The evidence is in the texts themselves. Read them honestly, without the filter of “but it’s holy so it must be good,” and the patterns are undeniable.

TL;DR: Religions with death penalties for apostasy, eternal torture threats, and rigid hierarchies that benefit their founders show clear narcissistic patterns. You can literally diagnose the psychology of religious founders by analyzing the control mechanisms in their texts. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism all show these patterns. Buddhism and Taoism don’t – because their founders weren’t narcissists. The psychology is obvious once you stop giving ancient texts a free pass.

The doctrine of ‘worship me or be tortured’ is not something we would expect from a universal god, but rather from a human system of faith that focuses on the control of other people. The major religions of our planet employ this system, leading one to conclude that they most likely are strictly of human origin.

(5411) Paul’s abrupt about-face

Paul was not a consistent voice in his promotion of Christianity, and partially because of this, the church traveled down two diametrically opposed paths- condemnation and mercy. The following was taken from:

https://www.debunking-christianity.com/2025/12/the-best-cure-for-christianity-is.html#more

Paul offers a list of people who deserve to die:

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1: 28-32)

Gossips, rebellious kids, and foolish people deserve to die? Of course, the clergy commonly avoid quoting this text, but instead try to make Paul look good with this quote:

 “Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” (I Corinthians 13:4-7)

 We can conclude that Paul had his good days and bad days, good moods and bad moods. But it was not a good thing that his poisonous rants ended up as scripture. He falls far short of being a saint.

These two messages cannot both be coming from the same god, but both of them appear in scripture that Christians say is, ipso facto, sanctioned by God himself. No, these are the effulgences of a human mind, subject to both positive and negative emotions.

(5412) Jesus contradicts himself

It should not be any wonder that four people writing without divine intervention about a person who allegedly lived 40-70 years in the past would characterize that person in ways that would appear contradictory. That is the case of Jesus in the gospels. The following list of 14 ways that Jesus contradicted himself was produced by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro:

The Gospels portray Jesus in complex ways, often recording statements that appear to stand in direct tension with one another. Scholars, theologians, and skeptics have debated for centuries whether these are genuine contradictions, instances of changing contexts, or examples of rhetorical hyperbole.

Here are the most significant examples where Jesus appears to contradict himself:

1. On Peace and Violence

• • The Pacifist: “Put your sword back in its place… for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52). “Do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other also.” (Matthew 5:39).
  • The Militant: “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (Matthew 10:34). “But now if you have a purse, take it… and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” (Luke 22:36).
    • Conflict: Is the message one of total non-violence, or is there a time for armed conflict/division?

2. On Family

• • The Loyalist: Jesus criticizes the Pharisees for finding loopholes to avoid caring for their parents, strictly upholding the commandment: “Honor your father and mother.” (Mark 7:10-13).
  • The Divider: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters… such a person cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26).
    • Conflict: Does discipleship require honoring the family unit or completely rejecting it?

3. On Witness Testimony (The “Self-Authentication” Paradox)

• • Statement A: “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.” (John 5:31).
  • Statement B: “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is true.” (John 8:14).
    • Conflict: In John 5, Jesus seems to accept the Jewish legal standard that self-testimony is invalid. In John 8, he rejects that standard based on his divine origin.

4. On Judgment

• • The Savior: “For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.” (John 12:47). “You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.” (John 8:15).
  • The Judge: “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.” (John 9:39). “Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son.” (John 5:22).
    • Conflict: Is his primary mission to suspend judgment or to execute it?

5. On the Permanence of the Law

• • The Traditionalist: “For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law…” (Matthew 5:18).
  • The Reformer: “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached…” (Luke 16:16). Furthermore, by declaring all foods clean (Mark 7:19), he effectively abolished the dietary laws of Leviticus.
    • Conflict: Is the Mosaic Law eternal and unchangeable, or was it a temporary placeholder that ended with John the Baptist?

6. On Public Ministry (The Messianic Secret)

• • The Light: “You are the light of the world… let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds.” (Matthew 5:14-16). “Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you.” (Mark 5:19).
  • The Secret: After healing people or being identified as the Messiah, he frequently “ordered them not to tell anyone.” (Mark 7:36, Matthew 8:4). When demons identified him, he “gave them strict orders not to tell others about him.” (Mark 3:12).

• • • Conflict: Is the Gospel meant to be broadcast publicly, or is it a secret to be kept hidden?

7. On Prayer

• • Private: “But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen.” (Matthew 6:6).
  • Public: Jesus prays publicly on multiple occasions, most notably the “High Priestly Prayer” in John 17 and the blessing of the loaves and fishes before the crowds.
    • Conflict: Is public prayer an act of hypocrisy (as suggested in the Sermon on the Mount), or a necessary tool for corporate worship?

8. On the Scope of His Mission (Universalism vs. Nationalism)

• • The Nationalist: When a Canaanite (Gentile) woman asks for help, Jesus initially refuses, saying: “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24). When sending out the disciples, he commands: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans.” (Matthew 10:5).
  • The Universalist: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations.” (Matthew 28:19). “I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also.” (John 10:16).
    • Conflict: Was his mission exclusive to ethnic Jews, or was it inclusive of the entire world?

9. On His Equality with God

• • Equal: “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30). “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” (John 14:9).
  • Subordinate: “The Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28). When asked about who sits at his right hand, he says: “These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father,” implying he lacks the authority to grant them (Matthew 20:23).
    • Conflict: Is Jesus co-equal with God, or is he a subordinate agent with limited authority?

10. On the Purpose of Parables (Revealing vs. Hiding)

• • To Enlighten: Jesus generally presents himself as a teacher come to reveal the truth to the simple and uneducated.
  • To Obscure: When the disciples ask why he speaks in parables, he gives a shocking answer: he does it so that outsiders will not understand. “To them I speak in parables… otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!” (Mark 4:11-12).
    • Conflict: Is the goal of his teaching to save people, or to deliberately confuse them so they remain condemned?

11. On the Burden of Discipleship

• • The Easy Yoke: “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. … For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (Matthew 11:28-30).
  • The Hard Road: “Small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” (Matthew 7:14). “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.” (Matthew 16:24).
    • Conflict: Is following Jesus a relief from religious burdens, or is it a path of intense suffering and self-denial?

12. On Asking for Signs

• • Refusal: When Pharisees ask for a sign, Jesus replies: “A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” (Matthew 16:4).
  • Compliance: In John’s Gospel, Jesus frequently performs signs specifically to generate belief. “Unless you people see signs and wonders… you will never believe.” (John 4:48). He then heals a boy explicitly to prove his authority. Later, he shows Thomas his wounds specifically as a sign to cure his unbelief.
    • Conflict: Does Jesus refuse to prove himself through miracles, or does he use miracles as his primary validation?

13. On Judging by Appearance

• • Do Not Judge: “Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.” (John 7:24).
  • Judge by Fruits: “By their fruit you will recognize them.” (Matthew 7:16).
    • Conflict: This is a subtle tension. Judging by “fruit” (external actions/results) is often synonymous with judging by “appearance,” yet John’s Jesus asks for a deeper judgment that looks past the surface.

14. The Timing of the “End”

• • Imminent: “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” (Matthew 24:34). “There are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28).
  • Unknown/Delayed: “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Mark 13:32).
    • Conflict: Did Jesus predict the apocalypse would happen within the lifetime of his disciples (a prophecy that failed), or did he claim total ignorance of the timeline?

The degree of contradiction is of such magnitude that it would seem extremely unlikely that all of these are accurate depictions are of the same individual. And although humans often fall into this trap, a god-man should be able to avoid them. For this reason alone, the gospels appear to describe a mixed-up human, rather than a divine figure.

(5413) Dissecting Christianity’s stories of origin

The gospels tell a bunch of contradictory stories about how the faith got started. If you read the four gospels and try to construct a single story that would (1) make sense, and (2) be internally consistent, you will end up tying yourself in knots. This is not the work of an unlimited deity. The following was taken from:

https://www.debunking-christianity.com/2025/12/christians-please-read-gospels-think.html#more

It is especially important to study the origins of the Christian faith, and—above all—the origins of Jesus. It doesn’t take all that much effort to discover that the four gospel authors didn’t agree about where Jesus came from. At the opening of the first gospel to be written, Mark, Jesus of Nazareth of Galilee shows up to be baptized by John the Baptist, a ritual that John has announced is for “the forgiveness of sins.” Jesus is soon identified—by a voice booming from the sky—as god’s beloved son, with whom he is well pleased. The author of John, the final gospel, who specialized in theology inflation, tells his readers right up front, that Jesus was present at creation:

 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being.”

 That’s quite a leap! From a Galilean peasant preacher to co-creator of the cosmos and everything in it. The authors of Matthew and Luke contributed to this theological inflation in their own ways. Matthew was impressed with the idea of a virgin-born holy hero—a common enough belief in other religions—hence he graphed this story onto his Jesus account. This fueled the imagination of the author of Luke’s gospel, who constructed an elaborate tale (Luke 1-3) of the angels playing key roles in predicting the birth of both John the Baptist and Jesus. Here too Mary’s virginity is stressed.

 But this pagan belief in a virgin-born holy hero soon collides with the cherished notion that the promised messiah would be a descendant of King David, and would be born in Bethlehem. In Matthew 2:6 we read this excerpt from an ancient prophet:

 “And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah, for from you shall come a ruler who is to shepherd my people Israel.”

 Both Matthew and Luke include genealogies of Jesus—which, remarkably, aren’t the same!—to  demonstrate that he was a descendant to David. These gospel authors include so much miracle/magic folklore in their stories—plus the superstition that a human sacrifice can divert the anger of their deity—so they appear to have been seriously deficient in critical thinking skills. Thus it is astounding they can claim that their holy hero was born of a virgin, impregnated by a holy spirit—that is, no human father—but also try to prove his status as messiah because king David was his ancestor. This makes no sense whatever.

Moreover, there’s a major contradiction between the birth narratives of Matthew and Luke. In Matthew, Mary and Joseph lived in Bethlehem: that was their home. Matthew was also fond of the idea that god/angels spoke to people in dreams, hence he tells his readers that Joseph learned in a dream that Jesus had been conceived by a holy spirit:

 “When Joseph awoke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took her as his wife but had no marital relations with her until she had given birth to a son, and he named him Jesus.” (Matthew 1:24-25) This is the end of Matthew chapter 1.

Nothing more whatever is said about the day or night when Jesus was born.

 It is very important for the devout to avoid thinking about the Luke birth story when they read the rest of Matthew’s account.

In his chapter 2, Matthew moves into full-throttle cult-promotion mode. Who would have thought: there was a new Jesus star in the sky, and “wise men” from the east had noticed it. Matthew was an advocate for the new Jewish sect devoted to Jesus, and he thought it was so cool that priest-astrologers from far away—after seeing the new star—would travel all the way to Jerusalem to find the new holy child and offer him gifts. This is why I urge devout Christians to think about, ponder, what they’re reading here. The Jesus story in the gospels is diminished by the layers of magic/miracle folklore and superstition we find in them. It’s not a good idea at all to add astrology to this mix.

 The priests-astrologers manage to get an audience with King Herod, who is panicked by their news that a new king had been born in the vicinity. The religious authorities explain to Herod that Bethlehem was the place to go, and the priest-astrologers resumed their journey—and Herod made them promise to let him know where they’d found the child.

 This is not to be believed. Herod would have sent his own warriors and spies to follow them.

 In Matthew’s naïve telling of the story, the star actually stopped over the house where the child was. The priest-astrologers found the child, offered him their gifts, then got on their way, avoiding Jerusalem on their way home, because they’d been warned in a dream to avoid Herod.

 When king Herod found out about their treachery, he ordered a massacre of boys under two years of age in the Bethlehem—based on what the priest-astrologers had told him about the age of the new king. So these “wise men” had found a toddler in the house where Mary and Joseph lived. There is no mention of a stable, with adoring shepherds worshipping a baby in a manger.

 Joseph too had received a warning in a dream to get out of town, to flee to Egypt with Mary and Jesus to keep them safe. This flight to Egypt is not mentioned in any other gospel, and later Joseph had another dream in which he was commanded to return home. This was Matthew’s invention, to be able to use a line from Hosea 11:1, “…out of Egypt I called my son.” Although the first part of the verse says, “When Israel was a child, I loved him…” Hosea was referring to the escape of the Israelites from Egypt many centuries earlier. But the New Testament authors were fond of searching the ancient documents for verses they could apply to Jesus.

 Eventually Joseph had another dream in which “the Lord appeared to him,” urging him to return home. When they got close to home, Joseph learned that Herod’s son Archelaus had taken over,

“…he was afraid to go there. And after being warned in a dream, he went away to the district of Galilee. There he made his home in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, ‘He will be called a Nazarene.’” (Matthew 2:22-23)

 He made his home in a town called Nazareth. Now, switch back to the birth narrative in Luke, according to which Joseph and Mary lived in Nazareth all along. How to get them to Bethlehem? Luke says that there was a census that required people to return to their ancestral towns to be registered. But there’s no record of any such census. But even more puzzling is the idea that a man would take his pregnant wife on the 90-mile journey from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Great men were often credited with humble beginnings, so it’s no surprise that Mary and Joseph ended up in a stable. Luke adds fabulous touches: angels visit nearby shepherds and announce the birth of Jesus nearby. So they head to the stable to adore the new child.

 There is no mention at all of priest-astrologers arriving to pay their respects.

 Luke goes on to report that Joseph and Mary took baby Jesus to the Jerusalem Temple to be circumcised, and he is heaped with praise by holy people there. Then they headed home:

“When they had finished everything required by the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth. The child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom, and the favor of God was upon him.” (Luke 2:39-40)

 If devout Christians bothered to read the gospels carefully, then think and ponder about what they discover there, they would be much less inclined to accept the assurances of their clergy that these texts were divinely inspired. Every December when I see the priest-astrologers in the stable presenting their gifts to the baby Jesus, my impulse is to say, “Get them out of there—that’s not what’s reported in the gospels.”

 The gospels aren’t to be trusted, by the way, on much else.

A real god would have left us with an authentic, believable, and consistent history of Jesus’ origins, not anything as messed up as we see in the gospels. This is a powerful piece of evidence that these are human-constructed myths, not historical truth.

(5414) Problems with the Book of Hebrews

The following essay, developed by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro, lists several issues with the Book of Hebrews in the New Testament, suggesting that it should not have been included in the biblical canon:

The Epistle to the Hebrews is a sophisticated, rhetorical masterpiece of the New Testament, but it is also one of the most theologically controversial books. Its anonymity (the author is unknown) and its intense focus on superseding Judaism have made it a focal point for both admiration and critique.

Here is a critique of the Book of Hebrews, examining its supersessionist theology, its strict warnings against apostasy, and its philosophical assumptions.

1. Supersessionism (Replacement Theology)

The central argument of Hebrews is that Jesus is “better” than everything that came before: better than angels, better than Moses, and better than the Levitical priesthood.

• • The Critique: Critics argue that Hebrews is the foundational text for Supersessionism—the idea that Christianity has completely replaced Judaism, rendering the Jewish covenant “obsolete” (Hebrews 8:13).
    • By arguing that the Old Covenant is “aging and will soon disappear,” the text can be read as delegitimizing the ongoing Jewish faith. This theological stance has historically fueled anti-Semitism by framing Judaism not as a valid sister religion, but as a failed prototype that should have been discarded.

2. The Impossibility of Repentance (Apostasy)

Hebrews contains some of the most terrifying warnings in the Bible regarding those who fall away from the faith.

• • The Text: Hebrews 6:4-6 states that for those who have “tasted the heavenly gift” and then fall away, “it is impossible… to be brought back to repentance.”
  • The Critique: This harsh stance seems to contradict the rest of the New Testament, which emphasizes God’s limitless grace (e.g., the Prodigal Son). It suggests there is a sin beyond forgiveness—not because God won’t forgive, but because the person cannot repent. This creates intense pastoral anxiety for believers who struggle with doubt or sin, fearing they have crossed a line of no return.

3. Platonism vs. History

The author of Hebrews relies heavily on a Platonic worldview, where earthly things are merely “shadows” of heavenly “realities.”

• • The Argument: The earthly Tabernacle and sacrifices were just “copies” of the true ones in heaven (Hebrews 9:23-24).
  • The Critique: Critics argue this philosophical framework devalues history and the physical world. By turning Israel’s history into a mere “shadow,” it risks treating real human events and covenants as insubstantial. It moves the focus of faith away from the gritty reality of history into an abstract, metaphysical realm that was foreign to the original Hebrew scriptures.

4. The Melchizedek Argument

A massive portion of the book’s theological argument rests on the obscure figure of Melchizedek (Genesis 14) to justify Jesus (who was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi) being a priest.

• • The Critique: From a strictly exegetical standpoint, the author’s argument is highly creative but tenuous. He builds an entire theology on silence—arguing that because Melchizedek has no recorded genealogy in Genesis, he must be “without beginning of days or end of life” (Hebrews 7:3). Critics view this as a form of “midrashic gymnastics”—forcing a theological conclusion out of a text that likely didn’t intend it, simply to solve the problem of Jesus not being a Levite.

Here are additional points of critique regarding the Book of Hebrews:

5. The Theology of Blood Sacrifice

Hebrews doubles down on the necessity of blood for forgiveness, stating unequivocally: “Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness” (Hebrews 9:22).

• • The Critique: Many modern theologians and ethicists find this axiom problematic. It enshrines a violent mechanism at the heart of the universe. It suggests that God is constitutionally incapable of simply forgiving (as humans are asked to do) without a violent death occurring first. Critics argue this portrays God as bound by a “blood magic” logic rather than being a sovereign agent of free mercy. It reinforces the idea that violence is redemptive.

6. The Use of Psalm 40 (Textual Manipulation)

In Hebrews 10:5, the author quotes Psalm 40:6 to prove that God wanted Jesus’s body, not animal sacrifices.

• • The Text Cited: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me.”
  • The Problem: The original Hebrew text (Masoretic Text) of Psalm 40 says: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have opened.”
  • The Critique: The author of Hebrews quotes the Septuagint (Greek translation), which contained a mistranslation or interpretive paraphrase (“body” instead of “ears”). He then builds a crucial theological argument on this mistranslation. Critics point to this as evidence that the author is willing to exploit textual variances to make his point, even if it contradicts the original Hebrew scripture he claims to be interpreting.

7. The Definition of Faith (Intellectual Assent)

Hebrews 11 is the famous “Hall of Faith.” It opens with a definition: “Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.”

• • The Critique: While poetic, this definition shifts the focus of faith toward future certainty and belief in the unseen. In the Gospels, “faith” is often trust in a person (Jesus). In Paul, it is trust in God’s grace. In Hebrews, it looks more like “holding on to a specific worldview despite evidence to the contrary.” Critics argue this fosters a version of faith that is resistant to reality testing, praising those who ignore the visible world in favor of an invisible hope.

8. The Exclusion of Esau

Hebrews 12:16-17 uses Esau as a negative example, calling him “godless” (or sexually immoral/profane) for selling his birthright.

• • The Text: “Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.”
  • The Critique: This interpretation of Esau is far harsher than the Genesis account, where Esau is foolish but ultimately gracious, forgiving Jacob in a moving reunion. Hebrews paints him as irredeemable. This reinforces the book’s hardline theology: that a single moment of “selling out” (apostasy) can lead to permanent, tearful rejection by God, regardless of later regret.

Conclusion

Hebrews is a brilliant sermon designed to stop Jewish Christians from returning to Judaism under persecution. However, its method of doing so—by declaring the Old Covenant “obsolete” and warning that falling away is unforgivable—establishes a rigid, high-stakes theology. To its critics, it is the text most responsible for severing the bond between Christianity and its Jewish roots, framing them as competitors rather than continuations.

The lack of verified authorship and the contradictory theology of Hebrews constitutes what should have been its rejection from the Bible. It takes Christianity in a direction that most theologians dismiss.

(5415) Gratuitous suffering in Joshua and 1 Samuel

Throughout the books of Joshua and 1 Samuel, God imparts human suffering that seems to not be necessary to achieve his goals. The following was taken from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1pzdq9m/unnecessary_suffering_in_the_bible_pt_2/

Joshua: God commands a full-scale conquest, He orders the total destruction of cities, destroys Jericho’s walls, hardens Canaanite kings’ hearts to ensure their deaths, prolongs daylight so Israel can kill more people, and directs a war that wipes out entire populations. The violence is explicitly attributed to God’s commands and interventions.

1 Samuel: God directly causes or sets up multiple forms of harm. He closes Hannah’s womb, decrees death on Eli’s sons, causes national defeat, rejects Saul, sends an evil spirit to torment him, and commands the complete destruction of Amalek.

Joshua

1. 1. Jericho’s Destruction (Joshua 6:17–21)

• What happened: God commands Israel to destroy Jericho after its walls fall. • Why: The city is “devoted to the Lord” (ḥerem) a sacred annihilation to purify the land. • The suffering: Every man, woman, child, and animal is killed except Rahab’s family.

2. Achan’s Sin and Execution (Joshua 7:1–26)

• What happened: Achan steals forbidden items; God causes Israel to lose at Ai. • Why: To purge sin and restore divine favor. • The suffering: 36 Israelites die in battle; Achan, his children, and livestock are stoned and burned.

3. Ai’s Destruction (Joshua 8:1–29)

• What happened: God instructs Joshua to ambush Ai. • Why: Fulfillment of divine justice and conquest. • The suffering: All inhabitants are killed; the king is hanged publicly.

4. Hailstones from Heaven (Joshua 10:11)

• What happened: God sends hail during battle. • Why: To aid Israel’s victory and demonstrate divine power. • The suffering: More enemy soldiers die from hail than from swords.

5. Sun Stands Still (Joshua 10:12–14)

• What happened: God halts the sun to prolong battle. • Why: To ensure Israel’s complete victory. • The suffering: Extended combat leads to more death.

6. Southern Campaign (Joshua 10:28–43)

• What happened: God repeatedly “gives” cities into Joshua’s hand. • Why: Obedience to conquest mandate. • The suffering: Entire populations of cities like Makkedah, Lachish, and Hebron are wiped out.

7. Hazor and Northern Kings (Joshua 11:1–15)

• What happened: God commands total destruction of northern cities. • Why: To prevent idolatry and secure the land. • The suffering: Hazor is burned; kings are killed; cities are razed.

8. God Hardens the Hearts of Canaanite Kings (Joshua 11:19–20)

• The text states that God hardened their hearts so they would fight Israel. • This ensured their destruction rather than peaceful surrender. • The harm is directly caused by God’s manipulation of their decisions.

9. Anakim Giants Eliminated (Joshua 11:21–22)

• What happened: Joshua destroys the Anakim with divine sanction. • Why: To fulfill God’s promise and remove perceived threats. • The suffering: Ethnic cleansing of a feared group.

1 Samuel

1. 1. Hannah’s Barrenness (1 Samuel 1:5–6)

• What happened: Hannah is unable to conceive, while her rival Peninnah taunts her. • Why: “The Lord had closed her womb.” • The suffering: Emotional anguish, social shame, and years of grief God is silent until He later “remembers” her.

2. Death of Eli’s Sons (1 Samuel 2:25; 4:11)

• What happened: Hophni and Phinehas, corrupt priests, are condemned by God. • Why: For abusing their priestly roles and dishonoring sacrifices. • The suffering: Both are killed in battle; the Ark is captured; Eli dies upon hearing the news. The nation mourns.

3. Plague on the Philistines (1 Samuel 5:6–12)

• What happened: After capturing the Ark, the Philistines are struck with tumors and panic. • Why: For possessing the Ark unlawfully. • The suffering: Affliction spreads across cities; people cry out in terror. God’s wrath is indiscriminate and terrifying.

4. Mass Death at Beth Shemesh (1 Samuel 6:19)

• What happened: Men of Beth Shemesh look into the Ark. • Why: God considers this a violation of sacred boundaries. • The suffering: 70 men are struck dead instantly. The people mourn and fear God’s presence.

5. Demand for a King (1 Samuel 8:7–18)

• What happened: Israel asks for a human king. God permits it but warns of consequences. • Why: God sees it as a rejection of His rule. • The suffering: God predicts oppression, conscription, taxation, and regret. The people will cry out, but He “will not answer.”

6. The Amalekite Annihilation Command (1 Samuel 15:2–3)

• God orders Saul to destroy the Amalekites completely, the men, women, children, infants, and animals. • The command includes noncombatants with no personal guilt. • Raises profound questions about divine justice and moral universality.

7. Saul Punished for Partial Obedience (1 Samuel 15:10–23)

• Saul spares King Agag and some livestock, intending to sacrifice them. • God rejects him permanently as king. • The severity of the punishment appears disproportionate to the infraction.

8. Saul’s Tormenting Spirit (1 Samuel 16:14–15)

• What happened: After rejecting Saul, God sends a “harmful spirit” to torment him. • Why: As divine punishment for disobedience. • The suffering: Saul suffers mental anguish, paranoia, and violent outbursts, his decline is divinely induced.

9. Massacre of Priests at Nob (1 Samuel 22:11–19)

• What happened: Saul orders the killing of 85 priests and their families. • Why: He believes they aided David. God does not intervene. • The suffering: Innocent clergy and civilians are slaughtered. Divine silence/Indirect Causality amplifies the horror.

10. God’s Silence Toward Saul (1 Samuel 28:6)

• What happened: Saul seeks guidance before battle, but God refuses to answer, no dreams, prophets, or Urim. • Why: Saul’s prior disobedience and rejection. • The suffering: Saul is left in despair, turns to a medium, and spirals into hopelessness.

11. Saul’s Death and Israel’s Defeat (1 Samuel 31:1–6)

• What happened: Saul is wounded in battle and commits suicide. His sons die with him. • Why: Fulfillment of divine judgment pronounced earlier. • The suffering: Portrayed as culmination of divine rejection

It would seem that an omnipotent, benevolent god could manage human history with much better aplomb than the coarse, vindictive, and mean god of Joshua and 1 Samuel. It almost seems like this god is a fictional construct of humans inflicted with inherent violent tendencies.

(5416) Higher ideals missing from the Bible

Humans have evolved quite a lot over the past 1900 years since the last of the biblical texts were written. As a result, the Bible lacks many of the newly-evolved ideals from its pages, leaving modern humans who extol the Bible needing to reference outside works to fill the gap. The question is why an infinite god could not see this coming. The following lists 12 critical topics under-served by the Bible, compiled by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro:

Identifying “higher ideals” missing from the Bible is a complex task because the text is a library of ancient writings, not a modern comprehensive ethical handbook. What one considers a “missing ideal” often reflects the gap between ancient Near Eastern/Greco-Roman values and modern, post-Enlightenment ethical progress.

Critics and ethicists often point to several key modern values that are either absent, underdeveloped, or actively contradicted in the biblical text.

1. The Explicit Condemnation of Slavery

This is widely considered the most glaring ethical omission.

• • The Reality: While the Bible regulates slavery (giving slaves Sabbath rest, forbidding harsh kidnapping), it never abolishes it. In both Testaments, slavery is treated as a fact of life. Leviticus 25 allows for the purchase of foreign slaves as permanent property. The New Testament (Ephesians 6, Colossians 3) instructs slaves to obey their masters “with respect and fear.”
  • The Missing Ideal: The concept of Universal Personal Liberty—that no human being can justly be owned by another. The Bible lacks a clear, unambiguous commandment like “Thou shalt not own another human being.” It took millennia for abolitionists to develop this ideal, often having to argue against literal readings of the text.

2. Gender Equality

While there are moments of revolutionary inclusion (Galatians 3:28), the structural ideal of the Bible remains patriarchal.

• • The Reality: Men are consistently framed as the heads of households, tribes, and churches. Women are often defined by their relationships to men (wives, daughters). Leadership roles (priests, apostles) are overwhelmingly male.
  • The Missing Ideal: Feminism and Structural Equality. The text does not articulate the idea that women inherently possess the same authority, autonomy, and capacity for leadership as men. It lacks an explicit dismantling of patriarchy as an unjust system.

3. Democratic Governance and Human Rights

The Bible was written in a world of kings and emperors. Its political imagination is monarchical.

• • The Reality: God is described as a King. The ideal government is a theocratic monarchy (David). The New Testament advises submission to governing authorities (Romans 13) because they are established by God.
  • The Missing Ideal: Democracy and Inalienable Rights. The Bible does not contain the concept of “government by the consent of the governed.” It focuses on duties to God and King rather than rights of the citizen (such as freedom of speech, freedom of the press, or the right to vote).

4. Critical Inquiry and The Scientific Method

The biblical worldview is revelatory, not empirical.

• • The Reality: Knowledge comes from God, prophets, and tradition. “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding” (Proverbs 3:5). Doubting Thomas is chastised; faith without seeing is blessed.
  • The Missing Ideal: Intellectual Autonomy and Skepticism. The value of questioning authority, demanding empirical evidence, and viewing doubt as a virtue for discovering truth is largely absent. The scientific method—the idea that truth is found through experimentation and falsification—is a later human development.

5. Environmental Stewardship as a Priority

While there are verses about caring for the land, the dominant theme is often anthropocentric dominion.

• • The Reality: Genesis 1 gives humanity “dominion” over the earth. The apocalyptic texts (Revelation, 2 Peter) describe the earth as destined to be burned up or replaced.
  • The Missing Ideal: Deep Ecology/Sustainability. The idea that nature has intrinsic value apart from its utility to humans, or that humans are merely one part of a fragile ecosystem rather than its masters, is not a primary biblical theme. The “end times” focus can arguably undermine the motivation for long-term planetary preservation.

6. Tolerance of Religious Pluralism

The Bible is strictly monotheistic and exclusive.

• • The Reality: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). Idolatry is the supreme sin in the Old Testament, punishable by death.
  • The Missing Ideal: Religious Tolerance and Pluralism. The modern ideal that different religions are valid, co-equal paths to meaning, or that a secular society should neutraly protect all faiths, is foreign to the biblical worldview, which sees truth as singular and absolute.

7. The Protection of Children from Physical Harm

While the Bible values children as a blessing, its specific instructions regarding their discipline are often viewed as archaic and harmful by modern standards.

• • The Reality: Proverbs repeatedly advises physical punishment. “Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish them with the rod, they will not die” (Proverbs 23:13). “Whoever spares the rod hates their children” (Proverbs 13:24).
  • The Missing Ideal: The Rights of the Child. The concept that children have bodily autonomy and a right to be free from physical violence, even from their parents, is absent. The Bible views the child more as the property or charge of the parent, subject to their absolute authority, rather than an independent rights-holder.

8. Cruelty to Animals

The Bible contains laws about not muzzling an ox and helping a donkey under a load, but it lacks a robust ethic of animal welfare.

• • The Reality: Animals are primarily viewed as property, food, or tools for sacrifice. The sacrificial system involved the ritual slaughter of millions of animals. In the New Testament, Jesus sends demons into a herd of 2,000 pigs, causing them to drown (Mark 5), an act that seems indifferent to animal suffering.
  • The Missing Ideal: Animal Rights/Sentience. The modern recognition that animals are sentient beings capable of suffering and deserving of protection from unnecessary harm—regardless of their utility to humans—is not a biblical priority.

9. The Concept of Consent in Marriage and Sex

Sexual ethics in the Bible are largely focused on property rights (adultery violates a man’s exclusive claim to his wife) or purity codes.

• • The Reality: Arranged marriages are the norm. Women are often “given” or “taken.” In Deuteronomy 22, a rapist can be forced to marry his victim (and pay her father), framing the issue as a transaction between men rather than a violation of the woman’s will.
  • The Missing Ideal: Consent as the Basis of Morality. The modern ethical baseline—that the morality of a sexual act depends primarily on the enthusiastic, informed consent of all parties—is not the biblical standard. The biblical standard is often about covenant status or ritual purity.

10. Opposition to Torture

While “lex talionis” (eye for an eye) limited revenge, the Bible does not explicitly condemn state torture as a method of punishment or interrogation.

• • The Reality: The Bible records acts of extreme violence (David mutilating Philistines, Jehu piling heads) often without specific condemnation. Hell itself is described in the New Testament using imagery of eternal torture (fire, weeping, gnashing of teeth).
  • The Missing Ideal: Human Dignity/Anti-Torture. The principle that no human being, regardless of their crime, should be subjected to cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment is a modern human rights development. The acceptance of “eternal torment” in theology can be seen as normalizing the ultimate form of torture.

11. Intellectual Freedom and Free Speech

The Bible is concerned with “truth” and “blasphemy,” not the marketplace of ideas.

• • The Reality: Blasphemy was a capital offense in the Old Testament (Leviticus 24:16). In the New Testament, heretics are to be shunned or “handed over to Satan” (1 Timothy 1:20).
  • The Missing Ideal: Freedom of Conscience. The Voltairean ideal—”I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”—is absent. The Bible prioritizes the purity of the community over the individual’s right to express dissent or error.

12. Non-Violence as a State Policy (Pacifism)

While Jesus preaches non-violence for individuals (“turn the other cheek”), the Bible never delegitimizes war as a function of the state.

• • The Reality: The Old Testament is full of divinely sanctioned wars. In the New Testament, soldiers are told to be content with their pay, not to lay down their arms (Luke 3:14). Paul says the state “does not bear the sword for nothing” (Romans 13:4).
  • The Missing Ideal: Universal Pacifism/Demilitarization. The ideal of a world without armies, or the belief that state violence is inherently immoral, is not consistently upheld. The text assumes the necessity of the “sword” to maintain order in a fallen world.

Summary

The Bible contains profound ideals of charity, mercy, justice for the poor, and humility. However, it largely lacks the modern structural ideals of liberty, equality, democracy, and scientific inquiry. Critics argue this is because the Bible reflects the limited moral horizon of its human authors; believers argue that the seeds of these modern values were planted by the Bible, even if the specific political structures took centuries to grow.

A real god would have known that human society would continue to evolve for at least for 20 centuries post-Jesus and would have been aware of the societal changes that would occur, and therefore would have tidied up the issues presented above to avoid the embarrassment of the Bible becoming outdated.

(5417) Top Ten Reasons to Dismiss Supernaturalism

Is someone asks an atheist why they dismiss the concept of a god or at least the existence of some element of supernaturalism, it would be instructive for them first to consider the following points, generated by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro:

Top Ten Reasons to Conclude that the Universe Operates without Supernatural Influence

• • The Success of Naturalism: Throughout history, phenomena once attributed to gods or spirits (lightning, disease, the movement of planets) have been successfully explained by natural laws. This trend suggests that remaining mysteries will also have natural explanations.

• • Lack of Empirical Evidence: Despite centuries of claims, there is no scientifically verifiable, reproducible evidence for supernatural entities or events (like miracles, ghosts, or deities) that stands up to rigorous scrutiny.

• • Occam’s Razor: This philosophical principle states that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. A natural universe requires only matter, energy, and physical laws. Adding a supernatural layer adds complexity without increasing explanatory power.

• • The Physical Dependency of the Mind: Neuroscience shows that consciousness, personality, and memory are dependent on the physical brain. Damage to the brain alters the mind, suggesting there is no immaterial “soul” that operates independently of matter.

• • Evolution by Natural Selection: The complexity of life, once the primary argument for a supernatural Designer, is elegantly explained by the natural process of evolution over billions of years.

• • Inconsistency of Supernatural Claims: Thousands of religions and supernatural traditions exist, often with mutually exclusive claims. Since they cannot all be true, and there is no objective method to determine which (if any) is correct, it is rational to view them as human cultural inventions.

• • The “God of the Gaps” Fallacy: Historically, supernatural explanations retreat as scientific knowledge advances. Using the supernatural to explain what we don’t yet understand is a logical fallacy that has consistently failed over time.

• • The Problem of Evil/Suffering: The existence of random, chaotic suffering (like natural disasters or childhood cancer) is consistent with an indifferent, natural universe but difficult to reconcile with a benevolent, supernatural overseer.

• • Cognitive Science of Religion: Psychology and anthropology explain religious belief as a byproduct of human cognitive mechanisms (like agency detection and theory of mind), showing how supernatural beliefs arise naturally from the human brain.

• • Conservation of Energy: The fundamental laws of physics (thermodynamics) suggest the universe is a closed system. Supernatural intervention would seemingly violate the conservation of energy by introducing energy from “outside” the system, yet no such violations are observed.

There is no proof of the lack of supernaturalism, but the evidence supporting this viewpoint is very strong. It is difficult to believe that we are immersed within such a magical existence without being able to detect it at any level of objective observation.

(5418) Deconstructing the Raising of Lazarus

The Gospel of John presents a rather elaborate tale about a man named Lazarus who had died. Four days later, Jesus arrives and spectacularly brings him back to life. Although most Christians view this event as being factual, there exist good reasons to assign it to the classification of fiction. The following was composed by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro:

The raising of Lazarus (John 11) is one of the most spectacular miracles in the New Testament—a man dead for four days, decomposing in a tomb, brought back to life in front of a crowd. However, historical and critical scholars often argue that this event is likely a theological fiction or a literary invention rather than a historical event.

Here are the primary reasons for this conclusion:

1. The Silence of the Synoptics (The “Missing Miracle”)

This is the most damning piece of evidence against historicity.

• • The Reality: Matthew, Mark, and Luke (the Synoptic Gospels) never mention the raising of Lazarus.
  • The Problem: According to John, this was the climactic event of Jesus’s ministry. It was performed just miles from Jerusalem, witnessed by many, and was the direct cause of the Sanhedrin’s decision to kill Jesus (John 11:53).
  • The Conclusion: It is historically inconceivable that the authors of Mark, Matthew, and Luke—who recorded minor healings and the raising of Jairus’s daughter (who had just died)—would omit the single most impressive, public, and politically consequential miracle of Jesus’s life. If they knew about it, they would have included it. If they didn’t know about it, it likely didn’t happen.

2. The Lazarus Parable in Luke

Interestingly, the name “Lazarus” appears in only one other place in the Gospels: the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16.

• • The Parable: In Luke’s story, a poor man named Lazarus dies. The rich man in Hell begs Abraham to send Lazarus back to warn his brothers. Abraham refuses, saying: “If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.”
  • The Theory: Scholars argue that the author of John took this parable and turned it into a narrative. He essentially said, “Oh yeah? What if someone named Lazarus actually did rise from the dead? Would the Jews believe then?” In John’s story, Lazarus rises, and the authorities indeed do not believe—they plot to kill him. John 11 is viewed as a literary expansion of Luke 16.

3. The Theological Structure of John

The Gospel of John is structured around “Signs.” There are seven signs, and Lazarus is the seventh and final one.

• • The Argument: The miracles in John are carefully arranged to prove theological points, culminating in the ultimate power over death. The raising of Lazarus serves a perfect literary function: it prefigures Jesus’s own resurrection and provides the occasion for the famous “I am the resurrection and the life” speech.
  • Conclusion: The story fits the book’s theological architecture too perfectly. It reads like a constructed scene designed to deliver a specific message (“I am the Life”) rather than a messy historical report.

4. Contradictions in the Timeline

In the Synoptic Gospels, the arrest of Jesus is triggered by the Cleansing of the Temple. That is the “final straw” for the authorities.

• • In John: The Cleansing of the Temple happens at the very beginning of the ministry (Chapter 2). The “final straw” in John is the Raising of Lazarus.
  • The Conflict: Both cannot be the primary cause. Historians generally view the Synoptic timeline (Temple incident leads to arrest) as historically plausible. John’s timeline, which moves the Temple incident to the start and inserts Lazarus as the catalyst for death, appears to be a theological restructuring of history.

5. The Absence of Lazarus in Acts or Epistles

Lazarus is never mentioned in the Book of Acts (which records the history of the early church in Jerusalem) or in any of Paul’s letters.

• • The Problem: A man who had been raised from the dead after four days would have been the most famous celebrity in the early Church. He would be living proof of the Resurrection. Paul, who argues passionately for the reality of resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15, never says, “Just go ask Lazarus in Bethany.” The total silence of the rest of the New Testament regarding this man suggests he is a character unique to John’s theological drama.

Summary

The prevailing critical view is that the author of John, writing 60-70 years after Jesus, crafted a narrative based on the Lukan parable to provide a dramatic climax to his “Book of Signs.” The silence of the earlier Gospels is considered the “smoking gun” that this event was unknown to the earliest traditions of the church.

Because of the elaborate detail provided by the author, if indeed the raising of Lazarus is fictional, it lends credence to the assumption that the entire Gospel of John is mostly also fictional. On the other hand, if the story is ‘true’ as a contemporary legend, then it casts aspersions on the synoptic gospels for leaving out the most prominent of Jesus’ miracles.

(5419) The definitive takedown of Isaiah 7:14

Christians have been using this iconic verse in the Book of Isaiah to add credence to the legitimacy of Jesus’ virgin birth. But an objective review of the facts completely demolishes this claim. The following is taken from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/1pzx24j/christians_dont_understand_isaiah_714/

Christians frequently appeal to Isaiah 7:14 as a prophecy that was fulfilled by Jesus being born of a virgin, proving that he is the messiah. After all, the Gospel of Matthew itself says this about his birth:

22 All this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet:

23 “Look, the virgin shall become pregnant and give birth to a son,
and they shall name him Emmanuel,”

However, if we actually read Isaiah 7:14 in context it becomes clear that this is completely inaccurate and the passage is totally unrelated to the events in Matthew. To be specific, there are three things which Isaiah 7 does NOT prophesy:

1. 1. 1. Jesus
      2. A virgin birth
      3. The messiah

What does Isaiah 7 actually prophesy? Well, it’s pretty simple and kind of boring honestly. Here’s a link so you can read the whole chapter. Do yourself a favor and go read it if you haven’t in the last couple months.

The Actual Context and Prophecy

In the 8th century BCE, King Ahaz of Judah is in a moment of crisis. Jerusalem is under attack from the North by King Pekah of Israel who has allied with the kingdom of Aram (in modern day Syria). Yahweh sends Isaiah to deliver a message of hope to King Ahaz. Isaiah reassures him that he will not be defeated and tells Ahaz to ask for a sign:

10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz, saying, 11 “Ask a sign of the Lord your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the Lord to the test.” 13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary mortals that you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. **Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son and shall name him Immanuel.**15 He shall eat curds and honey by the time he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted. 17 The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on your ancestral house such days as have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah—the king of Assyria.”

To summarize: When Ahaz refuses to ask for a sign from Yahweh, Isaiah delivers one anyway. He provides a timeline within which Ahaz will be saved from the two invading forces. He points out a young pregnant woman and says that before that child is old enough to tell right from wrong the king of Assyria will have conquered Israel and Aram, thereby delivering Judah from this national crisis.

That’s it. That’s the prophecy. “You are under attack right now but before this kid that’s about to be born is even a few years old, Assyria will plow through your enemies and you’ll be safe.”

But wait, where’s the virgin birth? Where does a messiah come into play? There isn’t one and it doesn’t.

The Messiah

Christians bring this passage up all the time as proof that Jesus is the messiah prophesied for centuries beforehand. However, as we’ve just seen, this is not even a messianic prophecy. The child in this prophecy is not predicted to do anything at all. The child himself doesn’t even matter. His identity is irrelevant. Isaiah is just using his age to provide a tangible timeline for Ahaz’s deliverance.

The Virgin Birth

This has been discussed many times and I’m sure most of you have heard it before, but there is no virgin in this prophecy. Go back and read it again if you didn’t notice.

Look, the young woman is with child

Isaiah is just referring to a pregnant young woman. You may be confused if you’re familiar with bad or theologically motivated English translations like the KJV, NIV, ESV that say,

Behold, the virgin shall conceive:

but this is not what the Hebrew says. The Hebrew here is:

הָעַלְמָ֗ה הָרָה֙ (ha-almah harah) which just means “the young woman is pregnant.” Not “virgin.” Not “shall conceive.” Almah simply means “young woman” and doesn’t specify anything about a woman’s sexual status. The Brown-Driver-Briggs lexicon describes almah as “young woman (ripe sexually; maid or newly married).”

However, the author of Matthew wasn’t reading the Hebrew but rather the Greek translation which uses the word parthenos which more is strongly associated with virginity but even that word does not strictly mean “virgin” (it is used to refer to Dinah who is explicitly no longer a virgin in Genesis 34). Hebrew meanwhile does have a word that means “virgin” — bethulah — and if the author of Isaiah 7 had wanted to write a prophecy which involved the impossibly miraculous situation of a virgin woman being pregnant, he certainly would’ve SAID that she was a virgin!

If you find yourself still wanting to insist that somehow this passage is talking about a virgin birth, then you are insisting that a virgin birth occurred in 8th century BCE Judah — because the child of this pregnancy was born during the reign of King Ahaz and was probably still a toddler when Assyria conquered the northern kingdom of Israel.

Double Fulfillment

Christians argue that there is a “double fulfillment” happening here. This paradigm is often employed to try to give Jesus some prophecies that he actually completed since he failed all the real ones. But even if we grant double fulfillment as a valid idea, Jesus didn’t actually double-fulfill anything in this prophecy. There really isn’t anything to double-fulfill (unless we lower our bar so low that we count simply being born, in which case I also double-fulfilled this prophecy).

Summary

The only way to see this as a messianic prophecy fulfilled by Jesus is to take a single, badly translated verse completely out of context and just project your own arbitrary meaning onto it (something the author of Matthew did repeatedly). If you just simply read the actual text in its original context, it is abundantly clear that this has nothing to do with Jesus, a virgin birth, or a messiah at all.

When a biblical author uses such a degree of poetic license it casts a shadow of doubt over his entire work, driving home a consensus view that he was creating fiction rather than recording fact.

(5420) God’s double standard

The following is a definitive disputation of the tendency for Christians to credit their god when good things happen, but at the same time fail to blame him for the bad:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/1q1ji8t/absolutely_no_one_has_been_able_to_offer_a/

Absolutely no one has been able to offer a COHERENT explanation WHATSOEVER for why if God gets credit and praise for humans using their free will to help others or improve themselves, God doesn’t also receive at least some of the blame for humans also using their free will to hurt others or sin.

How is this not an outright double standard?

If God’s the ultimate source of all being and the sustainer of ALL actions, and is praised when those actions align with “good,” it’s then logically incoherent to then claim God is somehow entirely hands-off when those same actions align with “evil.”

I’ve often seen theists often operate on a sort of “heads I win, tails you lose” type of metaphysical framework.

Theists praise God when humans use free will for good, claiming God helped, but excuse God when humans use free will for evil, claiming God can’t interfere. This is a logical double standard. When we compare this to human accountability, if someone gets the credit, they gets the blame.

Exactly how do people justify this asymmetry?

If you wanna give God the glory for the “good” that humans do, you must then logically also assign Him the liability for the “evil” that humans do. You can’t just have a God who is “intimately involved” in our virtues but “hands-off” during our vices.

When a person overcomes addiction, helps the poor, shows mercy, etc., it’s frequently described as “God working through them” or “the Holy Spirit’s guidance.” God’s positioned a co-author, or even a lot of times the SOLE author (“You/I are/am not capable, this was only done through the will/grace of God”), or the primary mover of the good action or outcome.

When a human being does something extraordinary or commendable, like saves a life, overcomes a crippling addiction, or displays heroic self-sacrifice, theism almost universally attributes this to God’s will or grace.

“God was working through me/him/her.”

“I/they couldn’t have done it without the Lord.”

“All good comes from God.”

“Praise God for this miracle of transformation.”

Here, human “free will” isn’t seen as some sort of isolated island. It’s seen as a faculty that was nudged, inspired, or empowered by God. Therefore, God receives the credit.

A surgeon does the work, God gets the praise.

To be exact, a doctor studies for 12 years, exercises discipline, and performs a life-saving surgery. The family thanks God for “guiding the surgeon’s hands” or “giving wisdom.”

An addict gets clean through sheer willpower, they or someone else says “God gave me/them strength.” This person struggles through rehab, fights every urge, and achieves sobriety. They testify that “God gave me the strength” or “The Holy Spirit changed my heart.”

An athlete wins, “Glory to God.” They train their whole life and wins the championship. They give “all glory to God” for the victory.

Contrast this with the typical response to evil. When a person commits a massacre or child abuse, theists suddenly invoke “free will.” Suddenly, God’s no longer a co-author. He’s suddenly just simply the passive observer respecting human autonomy.

Like clockwork, we hear stuff like…

“God didn’t do this, man did.”

“God cannot force us to love Him. He values our Free Will.”

“Evil is the result of human misuse of freedom.”

When a human murders, rapes, or steals, the narrative shifts instantly. Sudden shift to libertarian free will.

“God couldn’t stop it because that would make us (gasp) ROBOTS!!!!!11!@!!!!!!11111!”

When asked why God didn’t stop the school shooter, the standard apologetic response:

“God cannot intervene because to do so would violate human free will. If God stopped us from sinning, we would be robots. He must allow the potential for evil to allow for the reality of love.”

If helping the addict didn’t make him a robot, why would stopping the murderer make him a robot?

If God’s involved in the “good” free-will choices, He’s a causal factor. If He’s not involved in the “bad” ones, theists then need a mechanism that explains why He ONLY interacts with the will in one direction.

Many utilize concepts such as “primary” and “secondary” causality. In this case, God’s the primary cause, i.e. the existence of the act, and the human is the secondary cause i.e. the direction of the act.

I need to point out that if the “direction” of a good act is credited to God’s grace, then the “direction” of a bad act, i.e. the absence of that grace, must also land at His feet.

Why is God a co-author (or somehow SOLE author) of someone’s sobriety but a disinterested bystander to a child’s suffering? If God can “nudge” the will toward the good without “violating” it, then His failure to “nudge” the will away from evil is basically a sort of moral omission.

In fact, why does God “nudge” some toward the light but “respect the autonomy” of those sliding into darkness?

If a parent provides a child with a car (the “power” to drive) and specifically navigates them to a charity event (grace), they get credit. If the parent provides the car and watches the child (especially one not legal driving age) drive into a crowd without intervening or withdrawing the “power,” then, by law, the parent still bears liability.

People try to argue that God provides the “power” to act, but the human (who God designed and created) provides the “deficiency” that leads to sin. This reasoning doesn’t track. Again, if I provide a teenager with a high-performance car (the power) and I see them driving toward a crowd, and I have a remote kill-switch (the ability to intervene/influence) but choose not to use it, I’m still legally and morally liable.

In fact, going further, if I do use a remote “steering assist” to help them avoid a crash, I get the credit for the save (although, there’s still the question if I should have let them drove in the first place). It doesn’t really make sense to claim credit for the “steering assist” in the good scenarios while claiming “total hands-off autonomy” in the fatal ones.

If God provides the “fuel” for the good action, He’s still choosing when and where to provide that fuel. If He withholds the “fuel” or “grace” that would prevent a sin, He’s an accessory by omission.

In human criminal law, we have something called “duty to rescue”:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue

For example, imagine a firefighter who rushes into a burning building to save a child. This would be “good”. We praise him.

Now imagine the same firefighter stands watching another child burn. He has the hose, the ladder, and the capability. He says, “I didn’t start the fire, the fire is the result of combustion physics (free will). I’m just letting physics take its course.”

Yeah, no….. we would charge him with criminal negligence, at the least.

Theists want to praise the firefighter for the saves but claim he has “no relation” to the victims he watched burn.

Or if like, generally, God’s the battery that powers the machine producing “good” output, and He keeps powering the machine when it grinds people up, He’s still responsible for providing the power.

When the machine produces healthcare, you praise the battery.

When the machine produces torture, you blame the machine’s wiring.

But if the “battery” is sentient, omniscient, and omnipotent, and it knows the wiring is faulty, and it continues to pump power into the machine specifically while it’s grinding a victim to death, the battery is an accessory. If God can modulate His power/grace to assist the saint, He can also modulate it to inhibit the sinner. The refusal to do so is a choice.

I mean, exactly why is the “will” only fragile when it comes to stopping evil?

If God implies, suggests, aids, strengthens, or guides the will toward GOOD without turning us into “robots,” then He’s demonstrated that He’s capable of intervening in the human will without negating moral agency

If God could “give strength” to the addict to resist the drug, which would be a moral good, why did He not also “give strength” to the rapist to resist the urge, which would ALSO be moral good?

If you wanna say, “the addict asked for help,” you’re implying that God’s intervention is transactional. But what about the victims of the rapist? Did THEY not ask for help?

If wanna you say, “God only influences, He doesn’t force,” then why not “influence” the murderer? A “nudge” toward empathy in the mind of a killer is no more a violation of “free will” than a “nudge” toward hope in the mind of a recovering addict.

In fact, when it comes to “asking”, if what’s called “prevenient grace” is actually “universal”, why do some “respond” and others don’t? Is it because some are smarter? More humble?

If the answer is “they just chose to,” it seems a bit arbitrary, no?

If the answer is “better character,” then exactly where did that character come from? Genes? Upbringing? God?

Either God’s the primary mover of ALL acts, making Him the author of evil, or God’s the mover of NO acts, making Him an irrelevant observer, and your prayers of thanks for “guidance” are meaningless.

Which is it?

In fact, this sort of renders some prayers incoherent.

We pray “God, please change this person’s heart”, i.e. asking for interference. If God can change the heart, as implied by the prayer request, the “free will” defense for evil collapses.

But if God CANNOT change the heart, the prayer is useless.

“Pray for my son to stop using drugs” means asking God to override/influence the son’s free will.

If God answers “Yes”, then He influenced free will.

But if God *CAN* answer yes, why didn’t He also do it for the school shooter?

The free will defense is often used as a “get out of jail free” card for God. If God can influence the will toward good without “violating” it, as in the case of saints or the inspired, then He could influence it away from evil without violating it.

People try to bring up an Augustinian defense where evil isn’t a “thing,” it’s just “a lack of good.” This doesn’t exactly work. It’s just a word game. This is nothing more than some sort of deepity or word salad to the victim of such acts. If I build a bridge and it has a “lack of structural integrity”, I’m still responsible for the collapse.

If I design a life-support system and it has a “lack of oxygen,” the “lack” is a lethal design flaw. If God created a reality where the “lack of good” can manifest as the Holocaust, then the “lack” is a functional component of His very design. You can’t just praise the architect for the rooms that stay warm while blaming the “cold” (lack of heat) entirely on the windows. The architect designed the insulation.

A murder is not just “a lack of life.”

It’s a positive, energetic action.

It involves muscles firing, neurons sparking, and chemical energy.

God sustains the atoms and energy of the murderer just as He sustains the saint. If He withdraws sustainment for neither, but provides extra grace only for the saint, He’s playing favorites with outcomes.

In fact, take Heaven and Hell….

If God is capable of providing “sufficient grace” or “efficacious grace” to turn a heart toward Him, then the existence of “hardened hearts” is a choice made by God.

If God influences Person A to be a saint, but allows Person B to become a monster under the guise of “respecting free will,” God is playing favorites with the moral outcome of the world. If the “saint” gets to heaven because of God’s grace, then the “sinner” is in hell because of God deliberately withholding of that same grace.

In fact, if God places one person in a Christian home and another in a secular environment, and both have “sufficient grace,” the former is statistically more likely to believe.

Wouldn’t God still bear blame for the unequal distribution of “circumstantial” grace that leads to the rejection?

Either God gets 0% credit for human good. No “Glory to God” for achievements. No petitionary prayer for behavioral change. OR…

…God gets 100% credit for good AND 100% blame for evil (or at least share of the blame).

The current “middle ground,” which is based entirely on whether we feel the result is “good” or “bad”, is intellectually dishonest.

If “helping” or intervening violates free will, then God shouldn’t get credit for helping.

If “helping” or intervening DOESN’T violate free will, then God has no excuse for not helping everyone.

If you wanna say that God “permits evil” for a “greater good,” this makes God a utilitarian who uses victims as means to an end, which still brings us back to God receiving “blame”, or at least accountability for the trade-off. It also flies in the face of “omnipotence”

And before you decide to run off into “mysterious ways”, you cannot appeal to mystery only when you’re losing the argument or your theology starts running into contradictions. If we know enough about God to praise Him for the specific good things He does, we know enough to question the specific bad things He allows. You can’t claim God is “good” based on certain “evidence” and then ignore the counter-evidence as “mystery.

The point is well taken that if someone decides to credit their god for good outcomes, to be consistent, they should criticize their god for detrimental ones. Otherwise, they are playing a game of heads I win, tails you lose.

(5421) Ripping Christian salvation doctrine to shreds

Why would anyone worship an entity that punishes individuals for their beliefs or lack of belief, amidst a multitude of mutually exclusive belief systems, when belief formation is demonstrably shaped by genetic cognitive capacity, early social conditioning, place of birth, cultural and religious environment, family tradition and the influence of friends, exposure to information, educational focus, life-shaping events, an uncertain lifespan, and the psychological limits of reasoning?

Or more directly, why would anyone even pretend to worship an entity that promises to punish and torture people, who, through no fault of their own, acquire belief systems that are not true?

There is no legitimate basis to credit those who follow Christianity against those who don’t because the formation of these beliefs are essentially baked into the equation for each individual. Any god worth any measure of respect would understand the forces that forge human beliefs and would refrain from punishing those who for reasons beyond their control fail to get it ‘right.’

The Christian theology that only those who believe in Jesus will be saved, and the rest be damned, is itself the most damnable concept ever conceived by humankind.

(5422) Principle of Fair Warning

Because of the severe eternal consequences proposed by Christianity, heaven versus hell, it would seem to compel the Christian god to ensure that his salvation criteria is clearly broadcast to every human. This would demand that he take action to silence those religious faiths that are based on false or inaccurate information.

Clearly, this is not happening now, nor has it ever happened in history- competing, contradictory faiths have always thrived, ensuring that most people are innocently following an incorrect theological structure. The following discussion was provided by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro:

There is a powerful logical argument often used to critique traditional theism, specifically the concepts of eternal judgment and divine justice. It centers on the principle of “Fair Warning.”

Logic dictates that if a Just Judge intends to impose severe consequences (Heaven/Hell), the rules of the game must be universally known and unambiguous.

Here is an analysis of why a “Judging God” arguably should make Himself obvious and eliminate false religions:

The Argument for Clarity (The “Fair Warning” Principle)

1. 1. The Justice of the Rule of Law:
      • In human law, a statute is invalid if it is not promulgated (made known). You cannot be arrested for breaking a secret law.
      • The Application: If God intends to judge people based on their adherence to a specific set of rules (e.g., “Accept Jesus” or “Follow the Torah”), then justice demands those rules be accessible to everyone. A peasant in 12th-century Peru who never heard of Yahweh cannot “fairly” be judged by Yahweh’s laws.
   2. The Consequence of Ambiguity:
      • If God allows false religions to flourish, He is actively setting up billions of people to fail.
      • The Trap: Imagine a teacher who gives a test but allows 500 fake textbooks to circulate in the classroom, all claiming to be the “real” textbook. If the teacher then fails the students who studied the wrong books, the teacher is cruel, not just. A God who allows Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam to thrive for millennia if Christianity is the only true path is effectively hiding the exit door in a burning building.
   3. The “Confusion” Defense:
      • The sheer number of religions (and denominations within them) makes finding the “right” one a matter of luck or geography, not moral worth. A Just God would presumably want judgment to be based on moral choice, not on whether you were lucky enough to be born in the right zip code. To ensure this, He would need to eliminate the “noise” of false religions.

A Just God must make the rules obvious and eliminate false religions. The current state of religious diversity would make such a judgment unfair.

So what does this mean? Either (1) the Christian god is spectacularly unfair, or (2) the need for salvation via the blood of Jesus is a FALSE doctrine, or (3) the Christian god does not exist.

Christian apologists, faced with this conundrum, usually trot out (4) if you don’t embrace Jesus in this life, you will be able to accept him after death (when his existence is obvious)- but if that is true, wouldn’t everybody end up being saved? Or does this after-death opportunity exist only for people who have embraced a different religion but is otherwise not offered to atheists and agnostics??

None of this makes sense…except for the evident truth of (3) above.

(5423) The rational and ethical case for atheism

Although atheism is not well accepted in most regions of the planet, there exist many compelling reasons to credit its god-free rationale. The following is an essay produced by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro defending the atheistic philosophical position:

A World Without Gods: The Rational and Ethical Case for Atheism

The stance of atheism—the absence of belief in deities—is often mischaracterized as a rejection of morality, meaning, or hope. However, for many, atheism is not a negative position but a positive affirmation of reason, evidence, and human responsibility. It is a worldview grounded in the conviction that the natural world is sufficient to explain our existence and that humanity is capable of forging its own purpose without supernatural oversight. Justifying atheism involves examining the sufficiency of naturalism, the problem of divine silence, and the ethical clarity that arises from a secular perspective.

The primary intellectual justification for atheism lies in the principle of parsimony, often known as Occam’s Razor. This philosophical rule suggests that the simplest explanation—the one requiring the fewest assumptions—is usually the correct one. Throughout history, phenomena once attributed to gods, such as lightning, disease, and the movement of the planets, have been successfully explained by natural laws. As scientific knowledge has expanded, the “God of the gaps” has retreated. Today, we understand the origins of the universe through cosmology and the complexity of life through evolution by natural selection. These naturalistic explanations are robust and predictive, rendering the hypothesis of a supernatural creator an unnecessary addition that complicates rather than clarifies our understanding of reality. To withhold belief in a deity for which there is no empirical evidence is an act of intellectual integrity, aligning one’s worldview with the observable facts.

Furthermore, the persistent silence of the universe in the face of human suffering presents a profound challenge to theistic claims. The Problem of Evil asks how an all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving god could permit the vast scale of gratuitous suffering observed in the world—from natural disasters to childhood cancers. The apologetic defenses, such as the necessity of free will, often fail to account for suffering caused by non-human agents or the sheer randomness of tragedy. Atheism offers a coherent, albeit somber, resolution to this problem: suffering exists not because a deity has a mysterious plan, but because the universe is indifferent to our well-being. Acknowledging this indifference allows us to stop blaming or petitioning a silent sky and instead focus our energy on the tangible, human-led solutions to alleviate suffering.

Psychological and sociological research also provides a compelling alternative to theistic explanations for religious belief. The cognitive science of religion suggests that humans have evolved tendencies—such as hyperactive agency detection and theory of mind—that predispose us to see intent and consciousness where there is none. We are wired to hear a rustle in the grass and assume a tiger (an agent) rather than the wind (a force), because the cost of a false positive is low, while the cost of a false negative is death. This survival mechanism likely evolved into the belief in invisible spirits and gods. Similarly, the geographic predictability of religion—where a person’s faith is almost entirely determined by where they are born—suggests that religious beliefs are cultural constructs rather than universal, revealed truths. If a single religion were the objective truth of the universe, one would expect its distribution to be uniform, not clustered by culture and tradition.

Ethically, atheism fosters a profound sense of responsibility. If there is no divine judge to balance the scales in an afterlife, then justice must be achieved here and now. If there is no script written by a higher power, then we are the sole authors of our destiny. This realization can be incredibly empowering. It shifts the locus of moral authority from ancient texts to human empathy and reason. Secular ethics are not arbitrary; they are evolved social contracts based on the recognition that well-being is preferable to suffering. By basing morality on the consequences of our actions in the real world rather than on obedience to divine command, we create a more flexible and humane ethical framework—one that can evolve to recognize the rights of women, LGBTQ+ individuals, and other marginalized groups often oppressed by traditional religious dogma.

Additionally, the history of religious conflict and the suppression of scientific inquiry provide a pragmatic justification for skepticism. While religious institutions have certainly fostered community and charity, they have also been the source of centuries of sectarian violence, holy wars, and the persecution of heretics and scientists. From the trial of Galileo to modern resistance against evolutionary biology and climate science, dogmatic belief has frequently positioned itself as an enemy of progress. Atheism, by prioritizing evidence over dogma, inherently supports the free inquiry and skepticism that drive human advancement. It challenges the authority of institutions that claim absolute truth without proof, promoting a society where ideas are tested rather than imposed.

Finally, atheism offers a liberation from the fear of eternal judgment and the divisions of sectarian dogma. Without the need to defend mutually exclusive religious truths, humanity can recognize its common heritage as a single species on a fragile planet. Meaning is not found in serving a deity, but in connection with others, the pursuit of knowledge, and the appreciation of the fleeting beauty of existence. The finiteness of life does not render it meaningless; rather, it makes every moment precious.

In conclusion, the justification for atheism is built on a foundation of reason, evidentiary standards, and ethical humanism. It is a worldview that bravely accepts the universe as it presents itself—vast, ancient, and indifferent—and responds with curiosity and compassion. Far from a bleak denial, atheism is a call to maturity, urging humanity to set aside the myths of its childhood and take full responsibility for the world it inhabits.

In the absence of objective evidence to the contrary, atheism survives every form of scrutiny levied against it, since most attacks as such are founded mostly on an emotional basis. Atheism could easily be falsified by a deity having the desire and power to do so, but if and until that happens, it remains by far the most likely truth of our existence.

(5424) Minding the gap

There is a troubling time gap between the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. A period of about 400 years where Yahweh apparently lost interest in humans, and just took a long snooze. Even though Catholic bibles include some books from this period, they are not books of prophecy, which suggests they are just works of history. The theological problem is why Yahweh would take a four century vacation from speaking to and managing his followers. The following was written by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro:

The gap between the Old Testament (the Hebrew Bible) and the New Testament is traditionally known as the “Intertestamental Period” or the “400 Silent Years.”

• • Duration: It spans approximately 400 years.
  • Start: It begins roughly around 400–420 BC, after the final prophecies of Malachi and the completion of the last books of the Hebrew canon (chronologically).
  • End: It ends roughly around 4 BC – 26 AD, with the birth of Jesus and the beginning of John the Baptist’s ministry.

Why “Silent”?

It is called “silent” because traditional Protestant theology holds that there were no divinely inspired prophets speaking or writing scripture during this time. The “voice of God” was considered to be quiet until John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness.

What Happened During the Gap?

While “silent” in terms of biblical canon, it was historically chaotic and transformative. Key events include:

1. 1. Alexander the Great: Conquered the region, bringing Hellenization (Greek language and culture), which is why the New Testament is written in Greek.
   2. The Septuagint (LXX): The Hebrew scriptures were translated into Greek in Egypt (c. 250 BC), making the Bible accessible to non-Jews.
   3. The Maccabean Revolt: The Jewish people revolted against the Seleucid Empire (who tried to force pagan worship) and established a brief period of independence (Hanukkah celebrates this victory).
   4. Roman Occupation: In 63 BC, the Roman general Pompey conquered Jerusalem, setting the political stage for the Gospels.
   5. Rise of Sects: The Pharisees, Sadducees, and Zealots emerged during this time, creating the religious landscape Jesus would later navigate.

Note on Catholic/Orthodox Bibles: Catholic and Orthodox Bibles include books written during this 400-year gap (the Deuterocanon or Apocrypha), such as 1 & 2 Maccabees and Sirach. For these traditions, the gap is much smaller or non-existent in terms of historical record, though the prophetic silence is generally still acknowledged.

Some will say that four centuries is not a long period of time for God to remain prophetically silent, after all, we are going on nineteen centuries of silence currently, but it does nevertheless seem strange that a silent period of 400 years would occur during the lead up to God’s main event (Jesus). Why did he go silent for so long?- that’s a good question, and there are no easy answers.

(5425) A person reads the Bible for the first time

The following is a hypothetical quote from a person who has just finished reading the Bible for the first time:

After reading the Bible for the first time, here is what I found:

I found curses, blessings, spells, potions, gods, disembodied voices, angels, demons, astrology, numerology, prophecy, magical staffs, parted seas, a stopped-spinning earth, talking animals, serpent rods, walking zombies, an airbnb fish, nearly ten-century-old people, magical stars, voice-commanded healings, witches, giants, mythical creatures, and all the other stupid shit you would expect to find in a children’s fantasy book.

But I also found rules on how to honor kill women and children and the proper way to commit genocide against people you don’t like, and how gays should be killed, and how women should stay silent and just listen to their husbands, as well as the rules for how to own slaves and how you can beat them.

Uh, excuse me, but are you joking? Are you telling me a billion people believe this shit?

Yes, that is a very good question. So let’s think- how do so many people believe this shit? Well, it seems to come down to a triple dose of (1) childhood indoctrination, (2) social pressure, and (3) a strong motivation for people to alleviate their fear of death. And here’s the one reason we can summarily dismiss- (4) because it all makes sense.

(5426) The Sermon of the Seed and the Star

Google Gemini 3.0 Pro was asked to produce a hypothetical sermon that could have been preached by Jesus, assuming that he was actually the son of God and possessed knowledge commensurate with that station:

The Sermon on the Seed and the Star

“You have heard it said that the Lord God made the earth firm, and set the stars in the heavens as lamps to guide the night. But I tell you, the earth itself is but a seed floating in a vast ocean of darkness, circling a great fire, as a moth circles a flame.

Consider the dust of the ground. You see only dirt, but I tell you, within each grain of sand lies a universe of power, bound by unseen cords. If the smallest speck were to be unleashed, it could level a mountain. So too is the Kingdom of Heaven within you—small, unseen, yet holding the power to reshape the world.

You look at your bodies and see flesh and bone. But I tell you, you are written in a scroll that no eye can see, coiled within your very blood. A language of four letters, older than the prophets, instructs your bones to grow and your hearts to beat. And just as a scribe can copy a scroll, so does life copy itself, passing this hidden word from generation to generation.

Do not fear the sickness that walks in the night, the invisible spirits you call demons. For they are not spirits, but tiny seeds of life, smaller than the eye can behold, that multiply in the blood. Wash your hands in running water, not for ritual, but to wash away these unseen enemies.

Look up at the Milky Way, that river of light. It is not milk, nor a path of spirits. It is a city of stars, so distant that their light has traveled longer than the age of man to reach your eyes. And beyond it lie other cities, numberless as the sand.

Why do I tell you these things? Not to frighten you with the smallness of your world, but to show you the greatness of your Father. If He holds the binding force of the atom and the turning of the galaxies in His mind, how much more does He hold you?

Do not cling to the old maps, for the world is round and hangs upon nothing. Do not cling to the old fears, for the plague is but a part of nature to be understood, not a curse to be feared.

Seek truth, wherever it leads, for all truth is God’s truth. And know that the same hand that wrote the code of life within you has written love upon your hearts.

And know this, for the time will come when men will fly as birds, not on wings of feather, but on wings of metal and fire. They will speak across oceans as if whispering in a neighbor’s ear. They will peer into the womb to heal the unborn and gaze back to the very dawn of light itself.

But in that day, though knowledge shall increase, the heart of man will remain as it is today—restless, hungry, and prone to breaking. You will split the atom to unleash its fire, but will you use it to warm the hearth or to burn the city? You will cure the plague of the body, but who will cure the plague of greed that rots the soul?

Do not mistake the tool for the craftsman. The power to move mountains is nothing without the love to preserve the valley. When you have mapped the heavens and charted the depths of the sea, you will still find yourselves standing at the edge of the same mystery: Why are we here? And how shall we love one another?

The laws of the physical world are steadfast; gravity pulls, light travels, energy transforms but never dies. Yet I give you a new law, higher than these: Mercy triumphs over judgment. For just as the light bends around the great star, so too must your justice bend toward grace.

Remember the web of life that binds the sparrow to the forest and the fish to the stream. You are stewards of a fragile garden, floating alone in the dark. Do not poison the well you drink from, for the air you breathe and the water you drink are shared by all flesh. What you do to the least of these creatures, you do to the web that holds you all.

So go forth, not in fear of the unknown, but in wonder. For the more you learn of how the world is made, the more you shall see the fingerprint of the One who made it. Let your minds be sharp as flint, but let your hearts be soft as clay. For in the end, knowledge will vanish away, but love—love is the constant that binds the universe together.”

If this sermon appeared in the gospels, there is no doubt that Christianity would be on a very different footing. It would have provided evidence that Jesus was much more than just a Middle Eastern preacher, but that he had a connection to something beyond human understanding. Instead, what we see in the gospels is someone who was just as ignorant of science, geography, biology, and astronomy as every other person at that time.

(5427) Six examples of Jesus’ colossal ego

The author of the Gospel of Mark, in his fourteenth chapter, made sure to portray Jesus as a person overwhelmingly enamored of himself. This self-serving ego trip is seemingly unbecoming an all-powerful god. The following was taken from:

https://www.debunking-christianity.com/2026/01/honest-sermons-about-gospel-of-mark.html#more

At 72 verses, Mark 14 is the longest chapter in this gospel. It also gives an account of many conversations, and this should prompt curiosity. How did the author of Mark’s gospel find out about these conversations? Any curious reader today would ask, “Was someone on hand to take notes—and were these notes preserved in an archive that the author of Mark, decades later—would have access to? There is major consensus in Christian academia that this gospel was composed after the disastrous war fought between the Jews and the Romans, during which, in 70 C.E. the Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed (as depicted in Mark 13). Would archives have survived, would detailed documentation have survived? Scholars have no idea, moreover, where this gospel was written, or by whom.

So, where/how exactly did the author of this gospel come to know about these conversations? This is now a fundamental rule of historians writing today, trying to preserve accurate accounts of events: let the reader know the sources of information used to construct the account, e.g., diaries, letters, and other archival materials that were contemporaneous with the events. The author of Mark gives no clue whatever that he had access to such sources.

Devout Christians have been coached to believe that the gospels were divinely inspired—so they must be accurate. But exactly this same claim is made by so many other religions with respect to their own scriptures or holy writs: this information is a gift from their gods. Christian theologians can’t make this case for their Bible, for the simple reason that there are so many contradictions and errors in the gospels, as well as so much inferior, bad theology in so many of the other books of the Bible.

 The author of Mark’s gospel had a major goal, which was to promote the new Jesus cult, hence his fertile imagination played a huge role in creating the stories we find in his work. To appreciate just how far he failed as a historian, see Richard Carrier’s 2024 essay, All the Fantastical Things in the Gospel according to Mark.

 This author was keen to portray Jesus as a god who was visiting the human world, so it’s no surprise that he went out of his way to describe the colossal ego of his hero.

 Example Number 1:

 In verses 3-9 we find the story of a woman who anointed Jesus with a very expensive “ointment of nard.” Some of those present scolded the women for wasting the ointment: it could have been sold, and the money used to help the poor. Jesus scolds them right back:

 “Let her alone; why do you trouble her? She has performed a good service for me. For you always have the poor with you, and you can show kindness to them whenever you wish, but you will not always have me. (vv. 6-7)

 You will not always have me. He wants those present to be aware of his superior status. They are so lucky to have him in their presence.

 Example Number 2:

 In vv. 17-21 we read that Jesus was eating the Passover meal with his disciples. He predicts that one of them will betray him, which causes a panic. Jesus adds: “…woe to that one by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that one not to have been born.” (v. 21) In other words, his importance is so great that his betrayer should not even have been allowed to live at all.

 Example Number 3:

 Here we see the stunningly colossal ego, vv. 22-25, when Jesus announces that the bread they’re eating is his body, and the wine is his blood. “He said to them, ‘This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. Truly I tell you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.’” (vv. 24-25)

 The author of Mark here was pushing the idea that eating and drinking Jesus was a key to salvation. We also find here Mark’s theme that the kingdom of God was on the verge of happening—when Jesus would again drink the fruit of the vine.

 That master of theological exaggeration, the author of John’s gospel, would stress the importance of eating and drinking Jesus. He turns the flesh and blood of Jesus into full-blown magical potions. See John 6:52-58, especially vv. 54-55: “Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day, for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.” The Christian church—the Catholic brand especially—has enthusiastically embraced this superstition.

 Example Number 4:

 This may seem like a stretch, but the Gethsemane scene (vv. 32-42), also qualifies as an expression of ego. The holy hero knows he is a divine being dwelling for a brief time among humans, but is distressed by the grim plan that god has designed for him. He had taken three disciples with him to Gethsemane, and asked them to keep watch as he withdrew by himself to plead with his god that he be spared his role as a human sacrifice:

 “…he threw himself on the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. He said, ‘Abba, Father, for you all things are possible; remove this cup from me, yet not what I want but what you want.’”  (vv. 35-36)

 He returned to find the disciples asleep, but went back to his secluded spot to repeat his prayer to be excused from the painful, horrible fate that awaited him. It is not hard to grasp this as his ego taking over, that is, he knows that he is a superior being. Why does he have to put up with this horror, this indignity? This also is reflected in Jesus’ words (Mark 15:34) as he is dying: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

 Example Number 5:

 In the betrayal/arrest scene (vv. 43-50), Jesus is offended that he is captured by stealth at night:

 “Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest me as though I were a rebel? Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not arrest me. But let the scriptures be fulfilled.” (vv. 48-49)

Let the scriptures be fulfilled. We can be sure this is Jesus-script invented by the author of the gospel—unless you’re okay with the holy hero seeing his fate as a fulfillment of ancient texts: “It’s all about me!” In other words, the colossal ego is on display.

 Example Number 6:

 When Jesus is on trial, being examined by the elite of the Jewish faith, they were frustrated that solid evidence against him was lacking—until Jesus himself spoke the fatal, egotistical words:

“…the high priest asked him, ‘Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?’ Jesus said, ‘I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.’” (vv. 61-62)

Obviously, this never happened, that is, those present at his trial never saw him “coming on the clouds of heaven.” The author of this gospel, with this bit of Jesus-script, got it dead wrong. So many different Christian brands have repeatedly predicted the arrival of Jesus on a given date—and they’ve all been wrong. For more on this, see Robert Conner’s book, The Jesus Cult: 2000 Years of the Last Days.

In a recent essay published by Richard Miller on Facebook, The Mythical Mind-Space of the Earliest Christians, he makes these points:

The New Testament “…resists dating because the earliest Christians were not trying to situate their stories in history at all. They were not thinking in terms of timelines, sources, or civic memory. They were thinking mythically—and the texts they produced reflect that mental world.”

“The earliest Christian texts resist historical reconstruction because they were composed within a mental and subcultural world whose aims fundamentally eschewed historiological concern. They do not fail to position to history; they decline to participate in the enterprise altogether.”

“Earliest Christianity operated within a mythological, cultic social space in which historiology—understood as the disciplined preservation of past events within linear, verifiable frameworks—was never a value to be cultivated…”

There is no harm in trying to determine when the gospels were written, but it is futile to hunt for bits and pieces that may qualify as history. The authors wanted to promote belief in their messiah, and giving him a colossal ego was not seen as a negative.

It is safe to presuppose that a real god would have no need to brag about his greatness and importance. But humans, creating such a god, would necessarily want to impart a human-level degree of egoism that equates to their own insecurities.

(5428) Another view of the Jesus story

Although what follows gives inordinate credit to the veracity of the gospels, it does provide an alternate theory of how the story might have developed. The following is taken from:

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1q9bdaf/why_is_the_bible_silent_what_happened_in_the/

The Strategic Vacuum (18 Lost Years): Jesus disappears at 12 and re-emerges at 30. In an atheist context, this isn’t a mystery—it’s time for indoctrination. Eighteen years in a closed family circle is the perfect window for a mother to instill a “chosen one” identity in her son. Jesus didn’t emerge by accident; he was a “finished product” of long-term domestic grooming.

Mary as the Psychological Engine: Joseph was a laborer, likely a silent enabler. Mary, however, held the ultimate power: the story of the child’s origin. If she admitted anything other than a “miracle,” she faced death or social liquidation. The entire Christian myth may have originated as a defense mechanism against stoning for adultery.

Targeting the Uneducated: Why did the movement target uneducated fishermen? It’s a classic epistemological trap. If you want to spread an improbable story, you don’t go to the philosophers in Jerusalem; you go to people who lack the tools for critical verification.

Activating the Project (Cana): The Wedding at Cana is the moment the architect (Mary) loses patience. Jesus says he isn’t ready, but she pushes him into his first public “miracle.” It’s a marketing test—does our narrative work on the masses?

The Collapse of the Narrative on the Cross: The cry “Why hast thou forsaken me?” is the ultimate smoking gun. At the moment of impending death, the indoctrination fails. Jesus, as a man, realizes that the “Heavenly Father” his mother spent 30 years telling him about isn’t there. It is a tragic awakening to reality after a lifetime spent living inside a constructed myth.

There is a very unconfirmed rumor that Jesus was the product of a rape or affair that his mother had with a Roman soldier named Pantera. Speculation could include the concept that Jesus’ mother would have lied about such an event and invented a story about a miraculous conception. Further,  if Jesus was the product of both Jewish and Roman DNA, it might have given him a special appearance and perhaps some other genetic advantages that would serve him well during his ministerial campaign.

Although the Jesus story likely has no teeth in the legitimate flow of history, it is interesting to construct an alternate theory of how it could have come to pass. The idea that the narrative collapsed on the cross but Christianity survived could be viewed as a consequence of the reluctance of those who followed Jesus to admit that they wasted their time and money on him, and instead decided to continue the ruse to restore their losses and continue their subsidized lifestyle.

(5429) Dying children are a problem for Christianity

Christian theology faces severe headwinds when trying to explain how dying children will be judged. The following was generated by Google Gemini 3.0 Pro:

This is a profound theological dilemma known as the “Age of Accountability” problem. Your logic highlights a major tension:

1. 1. If they go to Hell: It seems monstrously unjust, as they lacked the cognitive ability to sin or choose.
   2. If they go to Heaven automatically: Then dying young is indeed the “best outcome.” It bypasses the risk of life entirely. Logically, this would mean abortion or infanticide is a “saving” act (a horrific conclusion that theologians desperately try to avoid).
   3. If they get a post-mortem choice: It seems unfair to adults who had to choose while “hidden” in faith, whereas the child gets to choose with “sight.”

If we assume Christianity is true, theologians have proposed three main “fair” solutions to this, though none are without problems.

1. The “Foreknowledge” View (Middle Knowledge / Molinism)

This view argues God is omniscient and knows counterfactuals (what would have happened).

• • The Logic: God judges the child not on the life they lived (which was too short), but on the life they would have lived if they had grown up. God looks at the timeline where “Little Timmy” lives to be 80. If Timmy would have rejected Jesus in that timeline, he is judged accordingly. If he would have accepted, he is saved.
  • The “Fairness” Factor: It removes the “advantage” of dying young. You can’t cheat the system by dying early because God essentially simulates your life anyway.
  • The Critique: It seems unfair to judge someone for sins they never actually committed in this reality.

2. The “Age of Accountability” (Innocence)

This is the most common Protestant view (often linked to King David saying “I will go to him” regarding his dead infant son in 2 Samuel 12:23).

• • The Logic: Sin requires intent and knowledge. Children possess “Original Sin” (a sin nature) but have not committed “Actual Sin” (willful rebellion). Therefore, God’s grace covers them automatically until they reach a cognitive threshold (the “age of accountability”).
  • The “Best Outcome” Problem: You correctly noted this makes dying young a “cheat code.” To solve this, theologians argue that life itself is a good, and the purpose of existence is not just “avoiding Hell” but “glorifying God.” A child in heaven is saved, but they missed the unique opportunity to glorify God through suffering, faith, and free choice on Earth. They are “safe,” but they have a “smaller capacity” for glory than an adult saint who fought the good fight.

3. The “Limbo” View (Traditional Catholicism – now largely discarded)

Historically, the Catholic Church proposed Limbus Infantum (Limbo of the Infants).

• • The Logic: Unbaptized babies have Original Sin (so they can’t enter Heaven/Beatific Vision) but have no Actual Sin (so they don’t deserve Hell/punishment).
  • The Solution: They go to Limbo—a place of perfect natural happiness. They are not in pain, but they are not in the presence of God.
  • The “Fairness” Factor: It avoids the injustice of torture but maintains the necessity of baptism/faith. (Note: The modern Catholic Catechism now trusts them to the mercy of God rather than dogmatically teaching Limbo).

4. The Universalist View (Post-Mortem Education)

Some theologians (like Gregory of Nyssa or modern Universalists) argue that everyone eventually gets saved, but the path differs.

• • The Logic: The child enters God’s presence and is raised/educated in holiness.
  • Addressing the “Unfair Advantage”: They argue the “advantage” isn’t unfair because God’s goal isn’t a fair competition; it’s the restoration of all things. The adult who struggled on earth had the “harder” path but perhaps gains a deeper, more resilient character or “weight of glory” that the child will never know. The unfairness is in the experience of life, not the destination.

Conclusion

If you want to maintain fairness (no advantage to dying young) while avoiding cruelty (hell for babies), the Molinist (Foreknowledge) view is the only one that logically equalizes the playing field, effectively saying, “Dying young doesn’t matter; God knows what you were made of.” However, it requires accepting judgment for hypothetical crimes.

The real conclusion of this text is that there is no satisfactory solution to the problem of dying children. As always, whenever this problem is addressed, the hand waving never makes sense.

(5430) Ten arguments against the existence of angels

Angels play an important role in Christianity, such that if they don’t exist, then, for certain, Christianity is almost surely untrue. In the following Google Gemini 3.0 Pro lists 10 reasons to conclude the non-existence of angels:

Arguments against the existence of angels—spiritual beings acting as intermediaries or guardians—often overlap with arguments against deities, but they also have distinct points regarding psychology, history, and physics.

Here are the primary philosophical, scientific, and historical reasons to conclude that angels do not exist.

1. The Argument from Psychological Projection (Hyperactive Agency Detection)

Evolutionary psychologists suggest that humans possess a “Hyperactive Agency Detection Device” (HADD). We are biologically wired to detect “agents” (intent-driven beings) in our environment because, for our ancestors, mistaking a rustling bush for a tiger (a false positive) was safer than mistaking a tiger for the wind (a false negative). This biological survival mechanism causes humans to attribute unexplained events, coincidences, or eerie feelings to invisible “agents” like angels, ghosts, or spirits.

2. Explanations via Neuroscience (Sleep Paralysis & Temporal Lobe)

Many historical and modern accounts of angelic encounters occur during altered states of consciousness.

• • Sleep Paralysis: This phenomenon occurs when a person wakes up but is temporarily unable to move. It is frequently accompanied by hallucinations of a presence in the room. In the past, this was interpreted as an angel or demon; today, it is understood as a neurological glitch.
  • The “God Helmet”: Neuroscientists have shown that stimulating the temporal lobes of the brain can artificially induce the feeling of a “sensed presence” or a spiritual being, suggesting that angelic encounters may be internal neurological events rather than external realities.

3. Historical Evolution from Polytheism

Historians of religion trace the concept of angels to ancient polytheism. In early Semitic and Mesopotamian religions, there were pantheons of “lesser gods” who served a supreme high god. As Judaism evolved into strict monotheism, these “lesser gods” could no longer be worshiped as deities, so they were demoted conceptually to “messengers” (mal’akh in Hebrew) or servants. The visual iconography of angels (wings, halos) was largely adapted from artistic depictions of winged deities in earlier cultures like the Assyrians, Babylonians, and Greeks (e.g., Nike/Victoria).

4. The Problem of Selective Guardianship (Survivorship Bias)

The belief in “guardian angels” often relies on survivorship bias. A person who survives a car crash might claim, “My guardian angel saved me.” However, this ignores the thousands of people who died in similar crashes. If angels are real entities tasked with protection, their protection appears statistically random and indistinguishable from chance. Attributing survival to an angel implies a moral inconsistency where the “angel” chooses to save one person while letting another perish in the same circumstances.

5. Occam’s Razor and the “God of the Gaps”

Similar to the argument against God, the “God of the Gaps” applies here. Historically, angels were used to explain planetary motion, weather patterns, and disease recovery. As science has found natural mechanisms for these phenomena (gravity, meteorology, immunology), the “job description” for angels has shrunk. Occam’s Razor suggests that if a natural explanation (e.g., the immune system fighting a virus) is sufficient, positing an additional invisible supernatural entity (an angel healing you) is unnecessary logic.

6. Inconsistent Descriptions and Lack of Consensus

If angels were objective realities, one might expect consistent descriptions of them across independent observers. Instead, descriptions of angels vary wildly depending on the culture and era of the observer.

• • Biblical vs. Modern: Biblical angels are often described as terrifying, non-humanoid monsters with multiple heads and eyes (like Ophanim or Seraphim). Modern “New Age” or pop-culture angels are benevolent, beautiful humanoids with two wings. This evolution suggests the concept is a cultural construct that changes with human artistic trends.

7. The Argument from Physics (Interaction Paradox)

Angels are often defined as “immaterial” or “spiritual” beings, yet they are claimed to interact with the physical world (pushing a person out of harm’s way, making sound, reflecting light to be seen).

• • The Physics Problem: To interact with matter (e.g., to catch a falling child), an entity must exert force. Exerting force requires energy and mass. If angels have mass/energy, they should be detectable by instruments. If they do not, they physically cannot affect the material world.

8. The Argument from Silence (Empirical Lack of Evidence)

Despite billions of cameras (CCTV, smartphones) covering the globe today, there is no verifiable footage of angelic beings. While there are many photos of “light anomalies” or lens flares claimed to be angels, none withstand scrutiny as distinct entities. The lack of high-quality empirical evidence, despite the ubiquity of recording technology, suggests these beings do not exist in the visible spectrum.

9. Pareidolia (Pattern Recognition)

Pareidolia is the psychological phenomenon where the mind perceives a familiar pattern where none exists, such as seeing faces in clouds or toast. Many “photographic evidence” claims of angels are simply light refracting through clouds, smoke, or water vapor that the human brain attempts to organize into a human shape (a “man in robes” or “wings”).

10. The Logical Redundancy of Omnipotence

From a theological perspective, if an omnipotent God exists, angels are logically redundant. An all-powerful being does not need messengers to deliver news or warriors to fight battles; he could accomplish these things instantly by will alone. The existence of a “heavenly bureaucracy” or army mirrors human political structures (kings needing messengers and soldiers), suggesting that the concept of angels was created by humans projecting their own societal hierarchies onto the cosmos.

If angels existed, it would be obvious, and the fact that it isn’t obvious, lets us know that they don’t exist.

(5431) Too many problems

If Christianity is the true religion of an omnipotent deity, there would be no way possible to compile a list of problems anywhere near the size of what is presented here. The conclusion of an objective analysis is that, beyond a reasonable doubt, Christianity is untrue.

One major lesson to be learned about determining what to believe and what not to believe can be summed up in a few words- the things that are real can be observed, measured, or reliably demonstrated. To that end, we can confidently state that ghosts, goblins, poltergeists, Bigfoot, behemoths, the Loch Ness monster, mermaids, hobbits, leprechauns, elves, alien abductions, wizards, witches, werewolves, centaurs, cyclops, angels, demons, dragons, satyrs, nymphs, gnomes, banshees, ogres, leviathans, vampires, fairies, zombies, and unicorns are not real. And one more we can add to this list: Yahweh- the god of Christianity.